This country is growing all the time, and, as the Senator from Missouri has said, we need a Department of Commerce. We We looked into this matter most carefully. We found that the Treasury Department was overcrowded, and we took from that Department and brought into this new Department such bureaus as ought, in our judgment, to be transferred. likewise went to the Interior Department, Mr. President, and if Senators will take the fifth section of this bill and read it, which is the real gist of the whole bill providing for the establishment of a Department of Commerce, I can not possibly see how any Senator can oppose it. I ask unanimous consent that the fifth section be printed in the Record as a part of my remarks. The section is as follows: SEC. 5. That there shall be in the Department of Commerce a bureau to be called the Bureau of Manufactures, and a chief of said Bureau, who shall be appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and who shall receive a salary of $3,000 per annum. There shall also be in said Bureau one chief clerk and such other clerical assistants as may from time to time be authorized by Congress. It shall be the province and duty of said Bureau, under the direction of the Secretary, to foster, promote, and develop the various manufacturing industries of the United States, and markets for the same at home and abroad, domestic and foreign, by gathering, compiling, publishing, and supplying all available and useful information concerning such industries and such markets, and by such other methods and means as may be prescribed by the Secretary or provided by law. And all consular officers of the United States, including consuls-general, consuls, and commercial agents, are hereby required, and it is made a part of their duty, under the direction of the Secretary of State, to gather and compile, from time to time, upon the request of the Secretary of Commerce, useful and material information and statisties in respect to the commerce, industries, and markets of the countries and places to which such consular officers are accredited, and to send, under the direction of the Secretary of State, reports quarterly, or oftener if required, of the information and statistics thus gathered and compiled, to the Secretary of the Department of Commerce. I should not have appealed to my colleague to permit a vote on this measure to-day but that I thought he had maturely considered it. It has been before the Senate for several days; but, of course, if the Senator has not had time to examine the bill carefully, I would not appeal to him to allow a vote to-day. My reason for doing so was simply that I thought he thoroughly understood it. Mr. BACON. I just simply admit that I do not thoroughly understand it, and I want to understand it before I vote on it. I am not the only Senator who occupies that position. I am in accord with the proposition that we should have an additional department. I expect to vote for this bill, but I desire to read it; and if I have the right so to do, I shall ask that a vote be not taken to-day. I am perfectly willing that a vote shall be taken to-morrow. Of course I have no right to make an agreement of that kind; but if the Senate sees proper to make it, I shall have no objection. Mr. PETTUS. I desire to inquire of the Senator in charge of the bill what is the exact meaning of the words on page 3, line 19, "The Department of Labor." What is the intention of those words? Mr. NELSON. It is called a department, but it is not an executive department. Let me call the Senator's attention to the Agricultural Department. It was called a department for years, but it had only a Commissioner at its head. It was not until 1889 that it was made an executive department. Now, this is called the Department of Labor, but it is not an executive department. It is really an independent department, not belonging to any department, standing by itself. Mr. PETTUS. It is an independent department, standing by itself, called a depart ment? Mr. NELSON. It is not an executive department. Mr. PETTUS. I understand, but the purpose of this bill, so far as those words are concerned, is to transfer all the duties of that department to the new one? Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir; but leaving the work of the department, as well as the force and everything else, undisturbed. Mr. PETTUS. Had you not better have two words to mean different things? You have a department in a department. That does not sound very well. Mr. NELSON. I know, but the misfortune is this, I will say to my friend the Senator from Alabama: In the law it is to-day called a department-the Department of Labor-but it is not an executive department, and the head of it is not a member of the Cabinet. It is technically really an independent bureau. Before the Commissioner of Agriculture became a Cabinet officer we had a Commissioner of Agriculture, and he presided over what we called in law the Department of Agriculture. It was called a department long before we got a Secretary who was a member of the Cabinet. The law making it an executive department was enacted in 1889, if I remember it aright, when it was for the first time made an executive department and the head of it a Secretary. Before that he was called the Commissioner of Agriculture and the department was called the Agricultural Department. Mr. PETTUS. Then the purpose of this bill, so far as those words are concerned, is that the Department of Commerce shall absorb the Department of Labor? Mr. NELSON. It shall absorb it in this way: It shall be like all these other divisions and bureaus of the public service-transferred to it under that executive head, but it does not contemplate the dismantling of the Department of Labor. It does not contemplate changing the functions of it or at all disturbing the force. The bill simply places it in the Department of Commerce, so that its work relating to the labor interests of the country (and a good deal of its work is of a statistical character) may articulate and work in harmony with the other bureaus and divisions of the new Department. Mr. PETTUS. I do not desire to discuss the bill; I merely wanted that information for the present, but I do desire that the bill shall go over. Mr. NELSON. In view of the request made, I ask unanimous consent that we may take a vote on the question of the passage of the bill to-morrow at 2 o'clock. Mr. FORAKER. At what hour? The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Two o'clock. Mr. PETTUS. I may as well say that I can not agree to that. Mr. NELSON. Would any other hour to-morrow, or any other day, suit? Mr. PETTUS. I do not see the necessity of pressing the pending bill in this way. Although it is a measure much favored, still I think it ought to take the ordinary course. When gentlemen want to discuss and examine a measure, there should be no attempt to press it to a vote in a few days. I want this bill to go over. I do not know that I shall vote against the bill as a whole, because I am in hopes there will be some amendments added to it which will make it palatable to some of us who do not like it in its present shape. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no further amendments, the bill will be reported to the Senate as amended. Mr. PETTUS. There is an amendment pen ling which has not been acted upon. Mr. PETTUS. It is an amendment to strike out certain words in line 11 on page 3. A motion to that effect was made at the last session of the Senate, and it is so printed in the bill. Mr. HALE. That has been voted on to-day. Mr. NELSON. It has been acted on. Mr. PETTUS. I have not heard it acted upon, and I have been here watching it all the time. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Every amendment which has been proposed up to this time has been acted upon. Mr. COCKRELL. I move, in line 15, page 3, after the word "Department," to strike out the words: And that the Census Office and all that pertains to the same be, and the same hereby are, transferred from the Department of the Interior to the Department of Commerce, to remain henceforth under the jurisdiction of the latter. I understand the Patent Office has already been stricken out. It leaves in the Census Office. I fail to see any reason on earth, above it, or beneath it, why the Census Office should be put under the Department of Commerce. It is an office which only once in every ten years takes the census of the living and of such things as may be prescribed by Congress, and it does it in obedience to the Constitution. Now, why should that be placed under the Department of Commerce, which has not a solitary thing to do with it? It primarily takes only the population and the necessary statistics in connection therewith, and it is not done annually; it is done only every ten years. It does not affect the project of the Senator from Minnesota to have all the statistical bureaus consolidated. The Census Office is not, in the strict sense of the word, a statistical bureau which gives information every year. It gives it only every ten years. Then it has to have a very large force, and as soon as the work is done the great bulk of that force is discharged. Now, you put them together and consolidate a number of these offices, and the result will be that the first time the census is taken after the offices are consolidated the entire force of clerks put into it will be kept there, and it will add millions of dollars to the expenses of the Government. You can not avoid it. As it is now, every ten years the census is taken. The force is employed for two or three years, and then discharged. There is no further expense-that ends it. We have been limiting the operations of the Census Office. We limited it to three years. The present Director of the Census will complete the work within the time prescribed by Congress, and then the great body of clerks will be discharged, and there will be no necessity for this Bureau being under the Department of Commerce. You have already provided enough to keep the new Secretary busy. You already have enough business before him to make the new Department as great as any one of the other Departments, and why insist upon incorporating that which is not kindred in any of its labors or duties or the results of its labors? I hope the words will be stricken out. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Missouri [Mr. Cockrell] offers an amendment, which will be stated. The SECRETARY. In line 15, page 3, section 4, after the word "Department," it is proposed to strike out the words: And that the Census Office, and all that pertains to the same, be, and the same hereby are, transferred from the Department of the Interior to the Department of Commerce, to remain henceforth under the jurisdiction of the latter. Mr. ALLISON. Mr. President, I hope the amendment proposed by the Senator from Missouri will be adopted. We have never heretofore made provision for the Census Office in any regular bill relating to a department. It is usual, and has been for many years, to prepare a separate bill each ten years in which it is provided how the census for the decennial period shall be taken. In those bills heretofore we have provided that the census shall be under the Secretary of the Interior. Now, when we come to deal with the census question, if it shall then appear that it is better to assign it to the new Department, the Department of Commerce, there will be no objection. But it seems to me we have already provided very amply for this Department without gathering into the bill creating it miscellaneous legislation which heretofore has been provided for only once in ten years. I suggest to my friend from Minnesota that he allow this to pass by and that it be provided for when we provide for taking the next census. Mr. McCUMBER. Mr. President, I should like to ask the Senator from Minnesota whether it is not a fact that five-sixths of the work that is to be accomplished by this new Department is work which is now being accomplished by the Census Bureau; and as to the statistics that we are supposed to secure from this new Department, could we not to-day get nine-tenths of those statistics from the Census Bureau? It seems to me that the Census Office, as a single department, to-day is more important really than the new office which is about to be created; and we are asked to make that merely a department under the general Department of Commerce. That being the case, it seems to me we are taking one of the old-established departments and practically destroying it, placing it under another department as a mere wing; the more important made the least important in this bill. Not only that, but I understand there is a feeling which has been expressed by members of the Senate as well as by members of the House that the Census Bureau should be made permanent; and if it is made permanent we would be able to get from that department the statistics required, and it would be the proper department to go to. It would be the department which would have the gathering of statistics and facts concerning any matter from the very beginning, and would be the proper department to which to go to secure what information we desire. I myself can not see any good reason for swallowing up the Census Office practically in the new Department of Commerce. Mr. TELLER. Mr. President, unless the debate is carried on so that we on this side can hear, we shall be under the necessity of asking that the matter go over until to-morrow, that we may read in the Record what Senators have said. I do not believe a Senator on this side of the Chamber has heard a word of what was said by the Senator who has just taken his seat. That was probably due to the noise and confusion in the Chamber. Mr. NELSON. Mr. President, I do not intend to reargue this matter. I simply wish to call the attention of Senators to the fact that the Census Bureau is now under one of the Executive Departments. It is a part of the Interior Department. In transferring it to this Department, it was not our purpose at all to have anything to do with the other question which has been suggested here, as to whether the work of the Census Bureau should be made permanent. The census, as the Senator from Missouri has well said, is taken only once in ten years. That is the fact in the field, but the compilation and publication go on. I dare say some of the work of publishing the volumes and indexing them and delivering them to Senators will continue for one or two years longer, although I am not familiar with that subject. The question whether or not the Bureau shall be permanent never entered into my consideration or into the consideraton of any member of the Committee on Commerce, I think. We simply looked at the question in the light of the fact that the great work of the Bureau is of a statistical character. It is not all a matter of population. When it comes to the matter of population and vital statistics, of course our plan is to take those statistics once in ten years, but when it comes to other statistics, relating to our manufacturing development, our shipping interests, our navigation, our merchant marine, our commerce at home and abroad, those are statistical matters which can be gathered from time to time. They are gathered, to a large extent, by the Bureau of Statistics from year to year. Now, personally, for myself I am not tenacious at all about this or any other question before the Senate in reference to this bill. I am simply anxious to get a bill passed establishing a Department of Commerce, which shall have charge of our commercial and industrial interests. If Senators are of opinion that the work of the census is not more germane and pertinent to the Department of Commerce than to the Interior Department, I have nothing to say. I submit the question to the judgment of the Senate. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to the amendment submitted by the Senator from Missouri [Mr. Cockrell]. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. TELLER. I wish to call the attention of the Senator who has this bill in charge to page 3, where it is provided that the Bureau of Foreign Commerce, now in the Department of State, shall be transferred to this new Department. Then later, on page 4, there is this provision: And the Chief of said Bureau of Foreign Commerce shall be the assistant chief of the said Bureau of Statistics. I want the Senator to tell me what is the object of providing that the head of one bureau shall be the assistant of another. It seems to me to be a remarkable provision, and one which it is not very safe to allow to go in. But if the Senator can give me a good reason, I will not move to strike it out. Mr. NELSON. The reason is this, if the Senator will allow me: There is in the Department of State a statistical bureau which was called the Bureau of Statistics. I think one or two years ago the name was changed and it was called the Bureau of Foreign Commerce. The work of that Bureau is mainly of a statistical nature, and it is confined to our foreign commerce. It consists to a large extent in compiling statistics and information gathered through our consular representatives abroad. Now, it was the plan of the bill to consolidate that statistical work with the Bureau of Statistics in the Treasury Department, and it occurred to the committe that in transferring that work to the Bureau of Statistics, it being at the head of one branch of the statistical work, it was well to make him the assistant chief. Now, this does not intend to change the salary, or the scope of it. It simply makes him the assistant chief, with the same salary he is getting now. It does not change his salary or his work in any material particular. It leaves him to work under the direction of the Chief of the Bureau of Statistics, placing him as the next assistant, because of the fact that he brings to that Bureau all the work that appertains to our foreign commerce, and he is supposed to be more familiar with that particular branch of the work. Mr. TELLER. Mr. President, the Bureau of Statistics, which is now in the Treasury Department, is to be transferred to this Department, and then, according to the Senator's statement, the Bureau of Statistics in the State Department is to be transferred also, and we are to have the two bureaus in this new Department. The trouble now with statistics in the United States is that we have a Bureau of Statistics in the Treasury Department and practically a bureau of statistics in other divisions as well as in other departments. We have a Bureau of Statistics under the Director of the Mint, which is in the Treasury Department. We have a Bureau of Statistics in the Agricultural Department and one in the Interior Department. In other words, we have just as many bureaus of statistics as we have departments, and some more; and I will guarantee that when these bureaus pass upon the same identical question no two of them have, in ten years, been able to agree to the same thing. You can find statistics on the same subject coming from the same department that will not agree within sometimes a million or two of dollars or within as many tons, if it is a question of tons or bushels or whatever it may be. There is not any statistical bureau in this Government in the strict and proper sense of the term. The Statistical Bureau in the Treasury Department have no right to revise the statistics of the Interior Department, nor even of the Treasury Department under another bureau. The Director of the Mint puts out statistics that do not very often agree with the statistics of the Statistical Bureau of the Treasury. I have not been impressed, as some Senators have, with the crying necessity for another department, but I have not felt like making any objection to it. About the only consideration that has reconciled me to it was that there might be such a thing as one statistical bureau that might be a bureau worthy of that name. Now, it appears that the Senator from Minnesota proposes to transfer one statistical bureau from the State Department and to leave it still an existing statistical bureau; and that he proposes to transfer one from the Treasury and leave it a statistical bureau. Mr. NELSON. Will the Senator from Colorado allow me to interrupt him there? Mr. TELLER. Certainly. Mr. NELSON. The plan is not to leave them distinct bureaus. The Statistical Bureau from the State Department is to be consolidated with this other bureau. Mr. TELLER. Not by the terms of this bill. Mr. NELSON. Yes. Mr. TELLER. Oh, no. It may be that that is what the Senator means, but that is not what is done. I will call the Senator's attention to it. I am not doing this in any hostility to the bill, but simply because we ought to make this measure as perfect as we can. Mr. NELSON. Will the Senator allow me to call his attention to the language commencing in line 23, at the foot of page 3, following the semicolon? That the Bureau of Foreign Commerce, now in the Department of State, be, and the same hereby is, transferred to the Department of Commerce and consolidated with and made a part of the Bureau of Statisties, herein before transferred from the Department of the Treasury to the Department of Commerce. Mr. TELLER. Well, it is still a bureau. Mr. NELSON. No; it is consolidated and made a part of it. It is not to be a separate bureau any longer. Mr. TELLER. If it is to be consolidated that bureau ought to be wiped out. The Senator still recognizes that there is to be a chief of the bureau that exists in the State Department, because that chief is to be the assistant of the bureau that is now in the Treasury Department. How there can be a head of that bureau and the head can be the assistant of the other bureau unless the two bureaus are still to exist I am unable to see. If the Senator means that it is not to continue as a bureau, the language of the bill should be changed. Mr. NELSON. I call the Senator's attention to another part of the language that I did not read: And the Chief of said Bureau of Foreign Commerce shall be the assistant chief of the Bureau of Statistics; and it shall be the duty of said Bureau The consolidated bureau Mr. QUARLES. Where is that found? and it shall be the duty of said Bureau That means the consolidated bureau under the direction of the Secretary, in addition to the duties now prescribed by law, to gather, compile, classify, and publish statistical information showing the condition of the foreign and domestic commerce, of the mining, manufacturing, shipping, and fishery industries, and of the transportation facilities of the United States. It does not intend that there shall be two departments left. It is the aim of the bill to consolidate and avoid the duplication of work. Mr. TELLER. I imagine, then, from what the Senator says, that what he proposes is to legislate that chief, when he consolidated the bureaus, into the place of assistant, but that he does not do. Mr. COCKRELL. Not at all. Mr. TELLER. That is what he wants to do. He has not done it. There will still be two bureaus there. One comes from the Department of State and the other from the Treasury Department. Mr. COCKRELL. And there will be chiefs of each of them. Mr. TELLER. There will be chiefs of each of them, but one will have a dual relation, because he will be the chief of one bureau and the assistant chief of the other. Now, if the Senator means that there shall not be two bureaus, he must change the language and put it so that we shall not have two bureaus. In addition to that, I supposed, from reading this language, that it was the intention to keep the two bureaus. So I had proposed an amendment of this kind, to strike out all in line 4, after the word "commerce," down to and including the word "Statistics," in line 6. That would do away with the proposition to make the Chief of the Bureau of Foreign Commerce an assistant in the other bureau; but if it is the purpose of the Senator to consolidate those two and make only one bureau, with one head, then he must change the language in some way. I do not know just how to accomplish that purpose. Mr. NELSON. I will say to the Senator Mr. COCKRELL. I suggest to the Senator from Colorado that he move to strike out the words which occur there and to insert And shall constitute one bureau, with one chief and assistant chief. Mr. NELSON. I will say to the Senator from Colorado and the Senator from Missouri that it was certainly the purpose of this part of the bill to consolidate the two existing bureaus into one. Mr. TELLER. If that is what the Senator wants to accomplish, I shall be glad to have the amendment offered so that we may have a vote on it. |