very important to us, that it is in growing short supply around the world, that the current objective might be changed so that we would not sell it off.

We hope to use commonsense in this thing, and we are going to try awfully hard to do it.

Senator CAPEHART. I have said two or three times it is a commonsense matter and a practical matter and a business matter.

Colonel CHAMBERS. Right.

Senator CAPEHART. How is the best way to handle it?

Colonel CHAMBERS. I think our problem lies in the fact that the problem, like Topsy, is suddenly on us all grown up, and we probably do not have some of the answers. I think in all honesty we could not give you all the answers at this time as to whether we need all these things or not. But that is what we are looking at, sir.

Senator SPARKMAN. On the matter of sales in foreign markets that Senator Capehart is asking about resulting in the sale of their products in competition with American-made products, let me ask you about the other side of it. How are you going to avoid the charge of dumping?

Colonel CHAMBERS. If you are selling at world market prices, Senator Sparkman, you are not dumping.

Senator SPARKMAN. In other words, you propose to sell at the market price?

Colonel CHAMBERS. Yes. You understand that the market price in any given area-I may say by way of qualification that I came back into the Government having been in this business for the last 8 or 9 years the world market price is not a nice, neat, set figure that is printed in publications. You find when you sell in any given market there is perhaps a published price and there is also an actual price that is being paid for materials in that area.

What we must be able to do is be competitive.

Perhaps I can give you an example on this. If we were trying to sell a material to a nation that normally would be buying it-let's use manganese, which is a fairly general item purchased in this area-we would have to offer our manganese, if we decided we had a surplus and were going to sell it, at a price competitive with the normal suppliers of manganese in that area.

So that if you have a nation that has been buying from India or Brazil or Rhodesia-those prices hang just about the same; they are pretty common- we would be competitive with them.

We would certainly not intend to go in and cut the market and drive them down. This would defeat all kinds of programs we have under

way.

Senator SPARKMAN. What about the other angle? What about displacing a friendly nation where perhaps we are extending aid? Do you take pains not to displace a friendly nation that has been enjoying that market even at the same price or at a competitive price?

Colonel CHAMBERS. Senator Sparkman, if we confine it to the AID program, I think it is deemed rather important that we would do this in order to help the outflow-of-dollars situation.

Senator SPARKMAN. You tie it to the AID program, but you do not limit it to that, do you?

Colonel CHAMBERS. This is right.

Senator SPARKMAN. That is the point.

Colonel CHAMBERS. On the AID program, this would permit us to help the outflow-of-dollars situation.

In all of these matters we will be dealing interdepartmentally. On the House of Representatives side, for instance, you find that Congressman Hardy and others have been very outspoken about the fact that we have not sold off rubber by way of example because our State Department seems to ride a very good herd on us when it comes to interfering with the markets of friendly foreign nations.

I believe, sir, that this is one where-in fact, I am certain—all disposals have to be cleared interdepartmentally anyway, and we could expect the State Department to speak out very strongly in a case that transactions of this kind were being suggested and they felt it was going to interfere with one of our national programs.

Senator CAPEHART. Mr. Chairman, might I ask this question?
Senator SPARKMAN. All right.

Senator CAPEHART. Let's take an example of a private enterpriser in a country or the government itself wishing to buy manganese. They are now buying manganese, and they have their own sources of manganese. Why would they want to buy from us at the same price, pay the same price to us for manganese that they are now buying from their own sources?

Colonel CHAMBERS. My own opinion is they would not buy from us, Senator. I think you will find that where you are talking about the private sector, where you have commercial relationships established-and most foreign trade is on a counter-purchase basis anyway they would not be interested in making spot purchase from our stockpile unless there was a temporary shortage.

What we want, I think, is the opportunity to be able to compete when these situations do develop. Because even though there were a spot situation developed and a temporary shortage, if we are limited to the American domestic price for manganese we could not sell a pound of it anywhere.

Senator CAPEHART. Would one be safe in assuming really what you want to do is sell some of our surplus to countries for them to create a surplus or a stockpile? Or to use these surpluses in given countries under the AID program where, let's say, we were going to give them $10 million in aid, we would ship them $10 million worth of our surplus goods?

Colonel CHAMBERS. If you ask me to give you an example of the contrary at the moment, I could not.

Senator CAPEHART. How is that?

Colonel CHAMBERS. If you asked me to give you an example to the contrary, I could not do it, because the only cases I know at the moment that look fruitful do fall into those two categories.

On the one hand, we believe that we can sell into the AID program. And I do have one case on my desk at the moment involving a nation which would like to buy some for a stockpile which they are proposing

to create.

However, there might be other instances develop where we could sell off some of our surpluses, and in those instances we would like to be able to respond to it, and we know we cannot if we are held to

our U.S. domestic prices, which on any of these materials are quite high.

Senator CAPEHART. So the big change you want in price in respect to disposing of these surpluses is that you be able to sell at the world market price or at a given price in any given country at a given time?

Colonel CHAMBERS. There are two changes. That is certainly the first change. The second one, you recall, is in a later amendment where we ask for a longer time to be able to enter into long-term contracts.

Senator CAPEHART. Yes. Thank you.

Senator SPARKMAN. I am sure you have seen the report put out by Senator Byrd's committee, the Joint Committee on Reduction of NonEssential Federal Expenditures, and have seen the table listing all of the many different strategic and critical materials in the Federal stockpile inventories as of February 1962 compared with maximum objectives.

You are familiar with that table, are you?

Colonel CHAMBERS. Yes, sir.

Senator SPARKMAN. Is the table a correct statement as of that time? Colonel CHAMBERS. Sir, I cannot speak to that particular table, but I know his source of information, and I think his figures are accurate. I think his objectives and amounts on hand are accurate; yes, sir. Senator SPARKMAN. I think it would be helpful in our record to include that table.

Without objection, I will ask that it be printed at this point in the record, along with the summary of the cost value of stockpile inventories.

(The tables referred to follow :)

Summary of cost value of stockpile inventories by program and reporting agency

1 For purposes of this table strategic ederal Facilities Corporation tin inventory. primarily by barter of agricultural com are consolidated. These materials appe