fatal. Besides other mischiefs, if a few can break up a quorum, they may seize a moment when a particular part of the continent may be in need of immediate aid, to extort, by threatening a secession, some unjust and selfish measure.

Mr. MERCER seconded the motion.

Mr. KING said he had just prepared a motion which, instead of fixing the numbers proposed by Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS as quorums, made those the lowest numbers, leaving the Legislature at liberty to increase them or not. He thought the future increase of members would render a majority of the whole extremely cumbersome.

Mr. MERCER agreed to substitute Mr. KING's motion in place of Mr. MORRIS'S.

Mr. ELLSWORTH was opposed to it. It would be a pleasing ground of confidence to the people, that no law or burthen could be imposed on them by a few men. He reminded the movers that the Constitution proposed to give such a discretion, with regard to the number of Representatives, that a very inconvenient number was not to be apprehended. The inconvenience of secessions may be guarded against, by giving to each House an authority to require the attendance of absent members.

Mr. WILSON concurred in the sentiments of Mr. ELLSWORTH.

Mr. GERRY seemed to think that some further precautions, than merely fixing the quorum, might be necessary. He observed, that as seventeen would be a majority of a quorum of thirty-three, and eight of fourteen, questions might by possibility be carried in the House of Representatives by two large States, and VOL. I.-81*

in the Senate by the same States with the aid of two small ones. He proposed that the number for a quorum in the House of Representatives, should not exceed fifty, nor be less than thirty-three; leaving the intermediate discretion to the Legislature.

Mr. KING. As the quorum could not be altered, without the concurrence of the President, by less than two-thirds of each House, he thought there could be no danger in trusting the Legislature.

Mr. CARROLL. This would be no security against the continuance of the quorums at thirty-three, and fourteen, when they ought to be increased.

On the question of Mr. KING's motion, that not less than thirty-three in the House of Representatives, nor less than fourteen in the Senate should constitute a quorum, which may be increased by a law, on additions to the members in either House,

Massachusetts, Delaware, aye-2; New Hampshire, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, no-9.

Mr. RANDOLPH and Mr. MADISON moved to add to the end of Article 6, Sect. 3, "and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties, as each House may provide." Agreed to by all except Pennsylvania, which was divided.

Article 6, Sect. 3, was agreed to as amended

Sections 4 and 5, of Article 6, were then agreed to, nem. con.

Mr. MADISON observed that the right of expulsion (Article 6, Sect. 6,) was too important to be exer

cised by a bare majority of a quorum; and, in emergencies of faction, might be dangerously abused. He moved that, "with the concurrence of twothirds," might be inserted between "may" may" and

expel."

Mr. RANDOLPH and Mr. MASON approved the idea. Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS. This power may be safely trusted to a majority. To require more may produce abuses on the side of the minority. A few men, from factious motives, may keep in a member who ought to be expelled.

Mr. CARROLL thought that the concurrence of twothirds, at least, ought to be required.

On the question requiring two-thirds, in cases of expelling a member,-ten States were in the af firmative; Pennsylvania, divided.

Article 6, Sect. 6, as thus amended, was then agreed to, nem. con.

302

Article 6, Sect. 7, was then taken up.

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS urged, that if the Yeas and Nays were proper at all, any individual ought to be authorized to call for them; and moved an amendment to that effect. The small States may otherwise be under a disadvantage, and find it difficult to get a concurrence of one-fifth.

Mr. RANDOLPH seconded the motion.

Mr. SHERMAN had rather strike out the Yeas and Nays altogether. They have never done any good, and have done much mischief. They are not proper, as the reasons governing the voter never appear along with them.

Mr. ELLSWORTH was of the same opinion.

Colonel MASON liked the section as it stood. It was a middle way between two extremes.

Mr. GORHAM was opposed to the motion for allowing a single member to call the Yeas and Nays, and recited the abuses of it in Massachusetts; first, in stuffing the Journals with them on frivolous occasions; secondly, in misleading the people, who never know the reasons determining the votes.

The motion for allowing a single member to call the Yeas and Nays, was disagreed to, nem. con.

Mr. CARROLL and Mr. RANDOLPH moved to strike out the words, "each House," and to insert the words, "the House of Representatives," in Sect. 7, Article 6; and to add to the section the words, "and any member of the Senate shall be at liberty to enter his dissent."

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS and Mr. WILSON observed, that if the minority were to have a right to enter their votes and reasons, the other side would have a right to complain if it were not extended to them and to allow it to both, would fill the Journals, like the records of a court, with replications, rejoinders, &c.

On the question on Mr. CARROLL'S motion, to allow a member to enter his dissent,-Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, aye-3; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, North Carolina, Georgia, no-8.

Mr. GERRY moved to strike out the words, "when it shall be acting in its legislative capacity," in order to extend the provision to the Senate when exercising its peculiar authorities; and to insert, except such parts thereof as in their judgment re

quire secrecy," after the words " publish them."-(It was thought by others that provision should be made with respect to these, when that part came under consideration which proposed to vest those additional authorities in the Senate.)

On this question for striking out the words, "when acting in its legislative capacity,"-Massachusetts, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-7; Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, no-3; New Hampshire, divided.

Adjourned.

SATURDAY, AUGUST 11TH.

In Convention,-Mr. MADISON and Mr. RUTLEDGE moved, "that each House shall keep a Journal of its proceedings, and shall publish the same from time to time; except such part of the proceedings of the Senate, when acting not in its legislative capacity, as may be judged by that House to require secrecy."

Mr. MERCER. This implies that other powers than legislative will be given to the Senate, which he hoped would not be given.

Mr. MADISON and Mr. RUTLEDGE's motion was disagreed to, by all the States except Virginia.

Mr. GERRY and Mr. SHERMAN moved to insert, after the words, "publish them," the following, "except such as relate to treaties and military operations." Their object was to give each House a discretion in such cases. On this question,—Massa