and say that because only a few corps evidence alone. The War Office felt kept within the grant, the grant was that they were not in possession of the necessarily insufficient. The Committee, information which would enable them therefore, came to the conclusion that to satisfactorily settle that point, and the point could only be decided by a the Committee which for 11 months has very detailed analysis of the Returns. been sitting inquiring into this matter, They, therefore, first proceeded to deter- has, in the most single-minded way, mine, as a standard for their own guid- been directing its attention not to ance, what items of expense were in support a foregone conclusion, but to reality necessary for the efficient main- form their own conclusion on evidence tenance of the corps, and which would, brought before them; and therefore, therefore, be properly chargeable against though it may be a disappointment, the public; and, secondly, whether the and probably will be a disappointment, Capitation Grant was sufficient to cover to a large number of Volunteers, to the expenses which thus had been laid find that the Capitation Grant is not down as, in the opinion of the Com- to be increased, and that the Committee, necessary. This the Committee mittee have not been able to see thought it necessary to do, in order to their way to recommend that increaseestablish which I may call a standard of they must remember that there were on comparison; and, keeping that standard that Committee more than one officer of in their own minds for their own guid- 20 years' Volunteer experience-men ance, they proceeded afresh to analyze who would be much more likely to err the Returns of the expenses before them. in the direction of leniency towards the When they came to that, they found Volunteer Force than in the way of that a very curious state of things was stringency in refusing the increase which disclosed. They found that out of 278 was possibly expected. But though the corps that sent in the Returns, only 38 Committee recommend no increase in of these corps kept their total expenses the money grant, they find that in pracwithin the amount of the Capitation tice the Capitation Grant will not be Grant; while 240 exceeded the grant. sufficient to keep up a corps, unless But then a close examination of the great economy is practised in the adfigures in the Returns showed that, in ministration of the various corps. That a great majority of instances, the excess economy must be attempted in clothing, occurred in items not properly charge- in head-quarters, in rifle-ranges, and in able against the public; only 83 of the various other matters. In respect to the corps had exceeded the Capitation Grant matters of clothing and rifle ranges, the in items which could be properly charged real panacea for existing evils, and the against the public; and upon that ground real way to reduce the expense and thus the Committee felt themselves bound to help in the due administration of the answer the question put to them, as to Capitation Grant with economy, is, I bewhether the Capitation Grant was not lieve, consolidation. There were one or sufficient for legitimate purposes, and to two items of expense-I think there say that they could not recommend any were three items-which the Committee addition to the Capitation Grant. My were of opinion could not be well borne Lords, I am perfectly well aware that to out of the present Capitation Grant. But a great number of people the decision the Committee thought it would be betof the Committee will be a very great ter, as these items were necessary to disappointment, and I can only thank keep up increased efficiency-to give a your Lordships for having allowed me separate allowance for those items on to enter into the details on the matter, condition of increased efficiency on the because I felt that it was not only your part of the Volunteers, rather than to add Lordships I was addressing. And I the money on to the Capitation Grant. wish to convey to the general body of One of these items was in the matter of Volunteers, as well as the public, the camps. The Committee were of opinion fact that the Committee which has been founded on evidence brought before investigating their affairs was not ap-them-the Committee arrived at the pointed to register a foregone conclusion; but honestly to inquire whether or not the Capitation Grant was sufficient for its purpose, and to decide upon the

opinion that a week in camp was equal to nearly the drill of a year in forming the Volunteers. The men in camp are associated in considerable numbers; they

noble Viscount what the Report was, he agreed with all the other recommendations of it; and he trusted that whoever might live another 20 years would see as favourable a result from their proposals as they now saw from those adopted 20 years ago from the Circular of General Peel.

EARL COWPER quite concurred with the noble Viscount that it would be a mistake to fix a limit to the numbers of the Volunteers. They had gone on steadily increasing, and it would be a damper now to tell the Force that no more of it was wanted-for that would be the practical effect of the recom

decided the Volunteers should go into scarlet. They had worn gray for 20 years, and had become attached to it; and, at the same time, it should be remembered that the Regulars might not be well pleased to see the Volunteers presenting themselves in the professional colours of regularly trained soldiers. Moreover, there were many men who looked very well in gray who would not look well set up in scarlet. He was of opinion it would be better to proceed cautiously in the consolidation of administrative battalions. Some of them were composed of companies very far apart, and the internal arrangements, particularly the finances, were better managed by the captain on the spot than by the colonel at a distance. He was sorry to hear there was to be no increase in the grant, as officers at present had to be chosen for their pecuniary rather than for their military qualifications; but he was pleased that the position of Volunteers as a part of the defensive Force of the country was now regularly recognized, not only by the public, but by the Government.

did not see that their Lordships had much to thank the Government for; for all the questions that had been glanced at were questions exclusively for the other House of Parliament, which alone had jurisdiction in matters of finance. He understood, however, that, in so far as they had any power, their opinions would be asked. He would assume that the Committee had very carefully considered the question-that their recommendations would be communicated to their Lordships, and the grounds on which they were made; and, assuming that the opinions of their Lordships were to have some force, he was happy to agree with almost every-mendation. He regretted that it was thing that the Committee appeared to have approved. As regarded the Force itself, he was happy to say that, in proportion as the Volunteers had had demands made upon them, they had most cheerfully responded. He had said more than once, in "another place," that when Englishmen undertook a duty they wished it to be a reality; that the Volunteers did not want to play at soldiers; and that to make their service substantial would be, not to diminish the inducement, but to increase it. They were a growing Force, and one of which the country had reason to be proud. He rejoiced extremely that the noble Viscount was proceeding on the lines of the localization system which he found before him. He did not think that a limit should be fixed to the Establishment of the Volunteers. What would have happened if they had placed a limit to the number of of the Force 20 years ago? It was still a growing institution, and it would be wise not to place a limit. He could not avoid referring to the death of General Peel, of which they had just heard, of which he might, in some sense, be conLORD TRURO said, there were sevesidered the originator. Twenty years ral points in the Report of the Comago, General Peel wrote to the bench mittee which had been referred to that of magistrates, of which he (Viscount did not give anything like universal Cardwell) was a member, asking their satisfaction to the friends of the Volunsupport in the first formation of Volunteer Force. One of those was the questeers. Who could have imagined, 20 tion of uniforms. Again, he thought years ago, that from the beginning, the recommendation of the Committee then so small, they would have seen in on the subject of drills was not satisfacthe first 20 years the present noble Force? He regretted General Peel had not lived to hear the approval given by Her Majesty's Government to the continuance of the Force. So far as he had collected from the statement of the

tory. He thought many would be deterred from joining the Force if they were compelled to undergo 30 drills in two successive years; for it would be too great an interruption to their regular occupations. From all that he had

VISCOUNT BURY replied briefly, and, in so doing, reminded the House that he had brought the matter forward in an unofficial manner, believing that that would be the best mode of bringing the subject under the public attention.

EARL GRANVILLE pointed out, as a matter of procedure, that the noble Viscount who had just addressed the House had made two speeches based on a Paper not yet before their Lordships; while, earlier in the evening, the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had deprecated any discussion upon another matter until Papers were laid before their Lordships. He thought the old Rules had better be adhered to.

heard from the noble Viscount that which would in any way render the evening, he could come to no other Government responsible for what had conclusion than that the recommenda- happened. He desired, also, that the tions made would not, on the whole, public might have the means of judging be advantageous to the numerical force whether the steps which had been taken or to the military efficiency of the were taken in such a manner as to be Volunteer Force. effective and in consonance with the soundest judgment which had been given them. A part of the Correspondence relating to the subject of his Question had already been referred to. That Correspondence showed that no less than three applications were made to the Imperial Government at various times for assistance in the shape of officers, troops, and regiments. He knew it was stated that the Papers would be laid on the Table of the House on Saturday or Monday-they would show, beyond doubt, that the requests made by Sir Bartle Frere and Lord Chelmsford had not been fully complied with-but what was the real position of things with regard to their applications? The first application was made at the desire of Lord Chelmsford through Sir Bartle Frere. It was an application for two special classes of officers, for two regiments of infantry and one of cavalry. ["No!"] The words of the despatch were that the presence of "one regiment of cavalry would be of enormous importance. At first there was a distinct refusal to give any additional support whatever, with the exception of certain officers. He could not see the advantage of sending those officers to drill Native troops, seeing how impossible it was to train them to order within a short space of time, and he looked on their services in that respect as valueless. Then, after having refused all those troops, the Government subsequently, upon a third application, sent two regiments of infantry.

SOUTH AFRICA-THE ZULU WAR

THE REINFORCEMENTS.

QUESTION.

OBSERVATIONS.

LORD TRURO rose to ask Her Majesty's Government, Whether application was at any time made by the Civil or Military Authorities at the Cape of Good Hope for additional military forces; and, if so, on what date it was received; whether the same was entertained; and, if so, the date on which the reinforcements were despatched; also the number and description of the forces applied for, the strength of each battery and regiment when embarked, and the number of volunteers taken to complete their complement respectively? The noble Lord said, he trusted the Question would not be considered premature, seeing that at present they had received no details of the disastrous affair, the announcement of which had been communicated to them, or to the various steps which had been taken by the Government. He had put the Question on the Paper with a view of obtaining information which would satisfy the public mind whether the steps taken by the Government antecedent to the present crisis were sufficient, or whether, on the

THE EARL OF LONGFORD said, he had to apologize for interrupting the noble Lord; but he wished to know whether he was asking his Question or answering it?

LORD TRURO said, he was making some observations with a view to elicit a reply to his Questions from the noble Earf the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, who, speaking last night, appeared to be under some misconception. His (Lord Truro's) desire was to show that the first intention and policy of the Government was that there should be

that he was under a misconception with respect to the Correspondence. Well, he did not like to return the compliment; but the noble Lord had failed to show in what respect he had misconceived it. It was true that in Sir Bartle Frere's despatch, dated the 14th of September, stating that General Thesiger thought two regiments of infantry "necessary,' he added that one regiment of cavalry would be of "enormous advantage ;" but in a despatch written on the same day by General Thesiger-namely, the 14th of September-and which was not included in the Blue Book, being a despatch to the War Office, which would be in their Lordships' hands im

forces he would require, and requested that two regiments of infantry might be sent; but he made no mention of cavalry. It was true that the Government did not at first see fit to send out the reinforcements, but did send the special officers demanded. A further request was made in a Memorandum written by Lord Chelmsford, and dated the 28th of September, which concluded by stating that

fused, in the first instance, to give any assistance to the Colony of Natal; but they subsequently complied, and gave two regiments for its protection. But what had they done now? Although they gave a limited amount of troops as compared with the number demanded for the purpose of defending Natal, they changed their policy and waged war against the Zulus, and that without waiting for additional reinforcements. It was said by the noble Earl that they had now sent a more than ample force, probably excessive reinforcements; but that they did after the disaster had occurred in the first instance, they refused to send any troops whatever. As to the regiments going out, their Lord-mediately, the General detailed the ships knew the condition in which regiments were sometimes sent, and that to make up their full strength they were obliged to have 200 or 300 volunteers from other regiments; who, therefore, would have to fight under officers to whom they were not accustomed. They were, therefore, inefficient for immediate active service, however excellent as soldiers the volunteers might be, as they ought to be known by their officers, and know and have reliance in their officers. He hoped that the noble Earl would give their Lordships some information as to the calibre of the guns which had been and were about to be sent out to South Africa. For his part, he could not help thinking that the public mind would not be satisfied that it was not until repeated applications had been made and pressure had been put upon the Government by able, prudent, and cautious men, that they complied with the demand for reinforcements, and then sent fewer than had been demanded, and that at a time of great emergency, and when there was a possibility of the dire calamity happening which had since taken place.

EARL CADOGAN said, that the noble Lord (Lord Truro), in putting and answering his Questions, had endeavoured to draw him into a discussion on the general merits of the war which was now raging in South Africa. He most respectfully declined to be drawn into any such discussion. He would do his best to answer the noble Lord, although he could not promise that his answer would differ very much from that which he had given on the same subject last night. The noble Lord seemed to think

"For offensive purposes alone the Natal and Transvaal Colonies require three battalions of infantry in addition to the forces we have already got,"

No

and he added that a battalion of the 24th Regiment was already available, and requested that the remaining two should be sent from England. request was then made for a regiment of cavalry, and the two regiments of infantry were sent out. The noble Lord asked the date at which they were despatched. He was sorry he did not know the exact date, but he thought they were sent the first week in December. The Papers, however, to be furnished by the War Office would answer the noble Lord's Question. With regard to the last part of the Question, he had only to state that if the noble Lord moved for a Return of the nature of one which had already been moved for on the same subject in "another place," there would be no objection to its being granted.

LORD TRURO, referring to the question of reinforcements, said, he should have thought that the desire for a cavalry regiment so distinctly and energetically expressed by Sir Bartle Frere in one of his earlier communications