Then Colonel King went on to say— "I do not wish to injure the Inspector; but I think it would be well if he understood that when examining a school he has something else to do than cut down the grant." He (Mr. Mac Iver) had no desire to trespass longer on the attention of the House; but he could not conclude without saying that it seemed to him that the proposition of the hon. Member was well worthy of the consideration of the House and the Government. MR. W. E. FORSTER said, FORSTER said, he thought his hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool had made out a strong case. He (Mr. W. E. Forster) hoped the Education Department had become convinced that the time had arrived when they should make use of the older Inspectors in giving some training to those who were about to be appointed in future. Many of the old Inspectors had professional and special training for the work which it was impossible to expect in the eight gentlemen it was proposed annually to appoint. Inspection was no easy matter. It could not be learnt at College, because it required some kind of experimental teaching, as well as storing the brain with the subjects taught in the schools. This apprenticeship, if he might so term it, was required for several reasons. First, the art of inspecting ought to be taught by those who had themselves practised it. It would be a great advantage if a newly-appointed Inspector could work for a few months with a man who had been accustomed to inspect, and have the opportunity of learning the art of inspection without frightening the children; and practise, at the same time, perfect justice and fairness to the masters and the mistresses. Again, teaching, as well as inspecting, was becoming of Government importance. There was now an army of teachers all over the country who exercised good influence in their respective localities. The country expected a great deal from them, and Parliament must not ignore their feelings, or expect that they had none in the matter. All must, he thought, sympathize to some extent with a schoolmaster or school mistress who for many years had taught children with great success, and who found them inspected by a young man just from College. He did not think an Inspector ought to be thus brought into contact with experienced masters and mistresses without some previous training in inspection. In too many instances hard-working and struggling masters and mistresses looked forward with alarm and anxiety to the visit of the Inspector. These people felt deeply any kind of injustice from young Inspectors, though the latter might not mean to do any. The manuer of inspecting required to be taught as well as the art of teaching. The necessity of a uniform system of inspection was universally recognized. At present money was given for results. Those results depended on examination. One Inspector might make the examination very different from what it would be under another, and thus a different standard for payment by results would be established in different schools. That would be no economy; but might lead to an enormous waste of money. It was, therefore, most desirable that there should be uniformity in their system of inspection. The plan put forward by the hon. Gentleman appeared to be very simple, and had a great deal to recommend it. If eight Inspectors were appointed every year, he saw no reason why they should not submit to a year's training, with small remuneration. MR. WHEELHOUSE said, there could not be two opinions on the necessity of improving their mode of inspection, which he would endorse by an incident which had come under his knowledge in a district in Yorkshire with which he was acquainted. A newlyappointed Inspector went to the school, and all who were interested in the school went to see him conduct the examination. Taking up a little child about six years old, he said-"Well, my little woman, what do you call a baby cow?" The child innocently answered -" A mutty calf, sir." The Inspector said— 46 "Mutton, my child! who taught you that? | of the Board, he entirely agreed with Go down." He (Mr. Wheelhouse) ven- the hon. Gentleman who had last spoken tured to say, there was not a child of six years old or less in the whole of Yorkshire who would not call a female calf by the local name by which it was known. It would have been infinitely better if that Inspector, who was a Southerner, had had some training before he was sent into the North of England, about which he knew nothing. MR. MUNDELLA complained that under the system of close inspection which at present prevailed the most competent persons were not allowed to become Inspectors of schools. The fact was that there was no promotion from the ranks. Why should they spend £2,000 a-year in giving gentlemen a year's training, when at the present moment there were above 100 assistant Inspectors, who were duly qualified for the office of Inspectors, not alone by education and standing, but by long experience as teachers in elementary schools themselves? Several of the Scotch Inspectors had been raised from the rank of schoolmaster. The London School Board had appointed five Inspectors who were formerly schoolmasters, and Sir Charles Reed had informed him that nothing could be better or more satisfactory than the way in which these men did their work. Such foolish questions as the one he had heard of "What is the nature of the despotism by which India is governed ?"-showed that some of the young Inspectors were untrained for their work. The noble Lord had now under him more than 100 Inspectors' assistants, some of whom had been among the ablest schoolmasters in the country, had taken high honours at the Universities, and practically did all the work of the Inspectors, except writing the reports. He intended during the present Session to bring the subject of school inspection before the House. MR. A. MILLS agreed that it would be desirable there should be some mode of training the Inspectors; but it ought not to be assumed that the present Inspectors did not do their work in a satisfactory manner. Much had been said about frightening the children; but all of them, when examined at the Universities and elsewhere, thought examination a very alarming thing and the Examiners very alarming persons. As a member as to the satisfactory manner in which the Inspectors of the London School Board who had been raised from the ranks did their work, and he would wish to see more of that class promoted. The object of the hon. Member for Liverpool (Mr. Rathbone) was to improve the machinery of inspection, and in that sense his proposal was very well worthy of attention. MR. RAMSAY said, that everyone acquainted with the working of a school must agree with the hon. Member for Liverpool that experience in the education of children would be an advantage to an Inspector. It would be desirable, before adopting any change in the present system, that the noble Lord should consider whether some months of training, not under an Inspector, but under an eminently qualified teacher, would not be necessary for the proper performance of the duties of Inspectors. Unless something of that kind were done, they would continue to have going forth from the Department Inspectors who, however high their attainments might be in classical and scientific knowledge, were ill-fitted for the work of inspecting common schools, and thereby determining the amount of the grants that ought to be made to them. He hoped the noble Lord (Lord George Hamilton) would consider the suggestion made by the hon. Member for Sheffield (Mr. Mundella), that the profession of Inspector should be open to teachers generally. In that way a stimulus would be given to them to work hard and qualify themselves highly. SIR JOSEPH BAILEY said, as to promotion to the rank of Inspector there was no bar but one-the early age at which Inspectors were chosen. It was very clear that if an Inspector was to be selected at an early age, it practically prevented elementary teachers of experience from obtaining the post. He would therefore suggest to the Department that, where a teacher of great ability and experience stood for the position of Inspector, he might be allowed to enter upon his work at a later period of his life than 30 years. LORD GEORGE HAMILTON said, that any proposal emanating from the hon. Member for Liverpool (Mr. Rathbone) with a view to improving the pre a fairer way of putting the matter, he thought, would be that, although the work was very well done, it had not been as well done as it might be, and he was sure that, taking into account the character and ability, generally speak sent system of elementary education | £2,000,000. The Estimates for the comwould be well worthy of the attention of ing year would, he feared, show a still the House and the consideration of the further considerable increase, which was Government, for there was no man in partly due, no doubt, to the increase in the House who had shown greater zeal the attendance and in the efficiency of in the cause of education, both in his the children. The increase in the attendcapacity of Member of Parliament and ance had rendered an augmentation of in the town which he represented. the staff necessary, and the Education Wherever there was a system of educa Department had been obliged to apply tion such as that now in force in Eng- to the Treasury for a number of fresh land, for which Parliament annually Inspectors. It was, however, probable voted large sums of money to be paid as that the Treasury, seeing all the claims results of examination and inspection, it which it had upon it, would object to any was necessary that that examination and further increase which was not absoinspection should be conducted with lutely necessary; nor had the hon. Memmethod and uniformity. In the case of ber for Liverpool, in his opinion, brought examination vivá voce instead of by forward such a case as would justify the printed papers, it was all the more House in accepting the Resolution which necessary that uniformity should be he had placed upon the Notice Paper. secured. He thought the Motion on The hon. Gentleman seemed to think the Paper would be likely to mislead the that the work of the Inspectors was imHouse as to one particular of the ex-perfectly done at the present time; but isting system, because it stated that "newly-appointed Inspectors should have one year's training under an experienced Inspector" before they were appointed to independent posts. It might be inferred from that language that a young man was taken straight from the Uni-ing, of the Inspectors, the hon. Gentleversity and at once, without any preliminary training or term of probation, set to the task of examining and inspecting schools. That was not the case. At present all newly-appointed Inspectors had to serve a certain term of probation with the senior Inspector of the district to which they were appointed. The minimum period of their probation was a fortnight, and in many cases more. At the end of that period they were not at once appointed to independent posts, but were sent to some district where there was a chief Inspector, of whose advice and experience they would have the benefit. The principle for which the hon. Gentleman contended had, therefore, been acted upon already to a certain extent by the Department. But it was proposed that all the Inspectors should have one year's training, and that the Department should at once appoint eight new Inspectors, each with a salary of £250 a-year. If that proposal were agreed to, the result would be that a sum of £2,000 a-year would have to be added to the present education expenditure, and the House was aware how rapidly that expenditure had increased during the last 10 years, till it now amounted to considerably over man would not wish to convey to the House the impression that they did not perform their duty. As to an Inspector being unacquainted with the dialect of a particular locality, he believed that the more experienced Inspectors, when they had occasion to go into a district where it was doubtful whether they would be understood by the children, allowed the masters to put the necessary questions, so that they might be intelligible to them. That being so, he did not think the mere fact of an Inspector betraying ignorance of the peculiar phraseology of a district furnished sufficient ground for asking the Treasury to increase the grant for the inspection of schools. It was quite an open question, however, and one which he would undertake to bring under the notice of the Department, whether the period of probation might not be extended. He had no doubt it might be possible to make some regulation for the future which would secure that in those cases in which a newly-appointed Inspector happened to have had no previous experience of elementary education or the examination of children, he should serve a longer period of probation than that which was now required. He was, how ever, afraid that he could not assent to the Motion of the hon. Gentleman, because its adoption would have the effect of adding to Estimates which were already excessively high, without any absolute necessity for the increased expenditure. He might also remark that there were a certain number of Inspectors who had been teachers. It should not, however, be forgotten that Inspec tors were sometimes called upon to investigate very difficult and delicate matters, and it was essential that they should be able to meet on equal terms with managers of schools. They also required tact, self-possession, and patience to enable them to discharge their duties satisfactorily, but he did not think the Lord President would be indisposed to appoint teachers of whose qualifications he was satisfied; but it ought not to be established as a rule that teachers should have a priority of claim. He might, in conclusion, observe that to have a teaching and inspecting department composed of the same individuals would be to form a close corporation which might hereafter be found to work by no means satisfactorily. May Coupon of 1878, the Government had, in conjunction with the French Government, brought strong pressure to bear on the Egyptian Government to secure the payment of that Coupon in full. In doing so they were running a considerable risk, and the lamentable event which had recently occurred might be to some extent traced to the interference of Her Majesty's Government. The next transaction to which he referred was revealed by the publication of the prospectus of the loan issued by the Messrs. Rothschild in October last. The security for this loan was the transfer of certain lands from the family of the Khedive to the State; and the hypothecation of these lands for the interest of the bonds; and Her Majesty's Government had undertaken to nominate a manager of those lands, who should not be divested of his functions without their previous consent. The object of this was, no doubt, to give a certain security to the subscribers to the loan; but up to the present moment they did not know what was the nature of the agreement between this country and Egypt. In pressing for the payment of the May Coupon, the Government were guilty of great injustice at once to the people and to the creditors of Egypt. Moreover, Her Majesty's Government either were aware, or ought to have been aware, that at the time they insisted on the payment of this interest, the Revenues of Egypt were insufficient MR. H. SAMUELSON, in rising to to meet the public charges. As early as call attention to the paragraphs in the the end of March last year, there were Letter of the Marquess of Salisbury to in the possession of Her Majesty's GoLord Lyons of August 7th, 1878 (Tur-vernment Estimates of the Revenues of kish Papers, No. 48), stating that Her Majesty's Government required the Government of Egypt to pay in full the May Coupon of the Unified Debt; and also to the conditions under which the Egyptian State Domain Loan of November, 1878, was contracted; and to MR. RATHBONE said, that after the explanation of the noble Lord he would not put the House to the trouble of dividing. Question put, and agreed.to. EGYPT-FINANCE.-OBSERVATIONS. move "That no sufficient justification has been shown for the enforcement by Her Majesty's Government of the payment of the May Coupon of 1878 of the Unified Debt of Egypt, nor for their interference in regard to the State Domain Loan of 1878;" said, his object in calling attention to these two questions was to learn what was the justification of the Government for interfering with the financial concerns of Egypt. In reference to the Egypt, and, of course, also Estimates of to pay money in Three per Cents or good railway debentures. He supposed he should be told that it was desirable England should co-operate with the Government of France. It was at least desirable that the two Governments should be on friendly terms; but whether England should enter into any entangling engagement with regard to Egyptian affairs was quite another thing. That raised a very wide question, but he should not enter into it on the present occasion. However, he would say this terms with our neighbours across the Channel, the Government wished to get into trouble, and to create differences, jealousies, and disputes, they could pursue no course more likely to produce that effect than that of tinkering loans on joint account. MR. SPEAKER intimated that, as an Amendment had already been moved, it was not competent for the hon. Member to move his Resolution. Debt, provide all the expenses of the administration of Egypt, provide for the Army and the Navy, the public worksexcepting railways-education, the Civil List, and every other charge incidental to the government of the country. Now, the sum which was necessary to provide for the expenses of the administration of Egypt was estimated by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Shoreham (Mr. S. Cave) at £3,000,000, and by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the City of London (Mr. Goschen) at £3,500,000. Taking it at the lower-If, instead of remaining on good sum, it would be seen that, if the full interest was to be paid on the Egyptian Debt, the other Services, including the Army and Navy, must suffer to the extent of 50 per cent. Though it was true that Her Majesty's Government, in the letter to Messrs. Rothschild, guarded themselves against any liability to pay interest on the new loan, yet by the course they had adopted, they took upon themselves, to a certain extent, the custody of the property which had been pledged for its security. Scarcely had they heard of this property being pledged for the payment of this particular loan, than news came that certain creditors had got a Decree from the International Court which enabled them to put an execution on this property. But suppose the Khedive or the Government of Egypt should fail to perform the convention into which they had entered as regarded the custody of these lands, or suppose the whole thing came to a deadlock through a disagreement between the three gentlemen who represented the various interests, were they to go to war on behalf of the private creditors of the Khedive? They had given a quasisecurity to the creditors, which they might be called upon in a very inconvenient manner to fulfil. The question was, whether both of these transactions were not contrary to the precedent which they had hitherto followed? He did not speak of loans which had been guaranteed in cases of emergency, but the undertaking of a liability, however slight, in regard to loans by private parties with a foreign Government. It was not to the interest of the English people-clergymen, widows, and others -to enter into these foreign loans, and he contended the promoters of the loans should receive no encouragement. would be much better to invest the It MR. W.CARTWRIGHT reminded the House of the declarations made on behalf of the Government when the Suez Canal shares were purchased. That step was taken on the undivided responsibility of the Ministry, and there was no previous consultation with other countries. It was laid down that the purchase was made on behalf of what were thought British interests. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in referring to the question of the purchase of the shares, laid stress on the political consequences of the step. The House was told by the right hon. Gentleman that the action of the Government was taken not because it desired the Canal for purposes of war, but the Government was desirous of seeing that the Canal should not be used as a political engine against England. The Premier said he had recommended the purchase of the shares as a political transaction, and thereby obtain a great hold on that part of Africa. There had been a great change in the attitude of this country; and he believed it could be shown that within the last few months undertakings had been entered into which altogether altered the liberty of action of this country. England was no longer free to form her own engagements. The proof of this was to be found in a Parliamentary Paper containing a Correspondence in which Lord |