A. I have.

4 Q. Have you made surveys for similar purposes?

A. I have.

5 Q. What plan did you pursue in your survey, and why? [This question is objected to on the ground that it is immaterial what plans he may have pursued.]

A. The plan I pursued was by running a base line upon the inner edge of the towing path; the courses and distances taken by the circumferentor, or ordinary surveyor's compass and chain; offsets made at each angle, bisecting the angle, and noting the distance from the base line to the exterior bounds of the land necessary for the canal; and noting also all permanent objects contiguous to, or connected with the canal, and their relative situation to the base line. I adopted that plan, first, as being in my opinion calculated to afford the best facility for ascertaining with the least difficulty at any future period the bounds of the public property; and secondly, as being the most economical.

6 Q. Does the survey of Mr. Hutchinson afford the means of ascertaining hereafter, with the necessary precision, the bounds of the canals?

A. I think it does, so far as I have examined it.

7 Q. Do you or do you not, consider the method pursued by Mr. Hutchinson preferable to that of measuring the exterior lines or boundaries of the canals by taking their courses and distances in the usual way?

A. I pursued the plan myself from the conviction of its being the most ready and correct way of ascertaining the boundaries.

8 Q. Will you state your objections to the method of measuring the out lines, as alluded to in the last question?

A. One great objection is the innumerable obstacles that are found at the outer edge of the canal banks, such as swamps, thickets, streams of water, and so forth, frequently occurring, which rendered it very difficult to run the correct line, and to measure correctly. In addition to that, the additional labor to execute this work and the consequent increased expense are another objection.

Q. In what respect do you consider the plan as pursued by Mr. Hutchinson superior to that of Jacob Trumpbour, last referred to?

A. In the plan pursued by Mr. Hutchinson, the line is run upon the even and level edge and surface of the towing path. A careful reference is had to all convenient permanent objects, such as locks, aqueducts, culverts, waste-weirs and bridges; noting the particular distance of the locks from the base line, and of others on the base line; the intersection of the base line with the division lines between farms and parcels of land, with the distance from the outer bounds of the canal property, is also particularly noticed, by which, together with the offsets taken at each and all the different angles of the base line, furnishes ample data whereby to ascertain the exterior bounds of the state property, and to calculate the quantity of land taken from any individual, without the aid of a survey or surveying instruments, other than the measuring line. Every intersection of the base line with the division lines of lands, furnishes an object of sufficient permanence to ascertain the location of the different angles of the base line. The offsets from the base line being made from the bisected angles to the exterior bounds of the canal, the outer angles correspond with each other end with the curved line of the canal.

Whereas, in surveying the exterior lines of the canal, two distinct lines must be run, one upon each side of the canal; frequently over an undulating surface, sometimes behind high embankments, where but a very indistinct view can be had of the ground to be surveyed: consequently angles will not unfrequently occur on opposite sides which will not correspond with each other, nor with the general location of the work; and in many places the survey must necessarily be made on the towing path, and offsets taken to ascertain the outer bounds. The local or permanent objects to be refered to being at a greater distance and frequently upon a different level from that of a base line upon the towing path, the reference cannot be taken with as much facility and precision. The permanent objects upon the state property, together with the fixed points at the intersection of division lines, are in my opinion sufficient for all the purposes for which such objects are necessary, and constituting part of the canal, must necessarily be preserved. References to trees, stumps, stones, or even buildings are more uncertain, they being liable to decay or at any time to be removed; hence permanent ob

jects outside of the bounds of the public property, I think are but little to be relied upon.

In giving my opinion, I do not wish to be understood, that a survey cannot be made at the exterior bounds of the canal banks, for I believe such a survey may be made to answer all necessary purposes; but I do say, that the survey can be made from the bare line upon the towing path with more accuracy and with greater facility.

11 Q. What is the object of making such canal surveys?

A. The object where I have had the direction of such surveys, has been to procure data to be preserved as matter of record, whereby to ascertain, at the present or any future period, the bounds. of the property occupied by the canals.

12 Q. Have you examined some of the rough maps and field notes presented to the committee by Judge Trumpbour, so far as to become acquainted with his plan of surveying the canals?

A. I have examined, and I believe understand them, so far as they are indicated by the field notes and maps, without his personal explanation.

13 Q. Whose survey depends most for its accuracy on the magnetic needle, Mr. Hutchinson's or Mr. Trumpbour's?

A. That is more than I can determine; I believe both depend on permanent objects, noted along the line as a check upon the variation of the compass.

14 Q. Will you explain to the committee what permanent objects are noted in Judge Trumpbour's field notes?

A. So far as I have examined, I find buildings, bridges, stumps, trees, stakes and logs, referred to. Reference is also made to locks and to the canal.

15 Q. Do the minutes entered in Judge Trumpbour's field notes and map, indicate that very great care has been taken in making the survey?

A. I could not undertake to give an explanation or construction of his field notes. From the examination I have made, I think it [A. No. 834.]

5

subject to the same difficulties that I have previously described, in relation to the comparative merits of the two plans.

On the part of Judge Trumpbour.

21 Q. What knowledge have you whether the reference to convenient permanent objects in the survey of Mr. Hutchinson, was carefully made?

A. None.

22 Q. Look at the map and field book of Mr. Hutchinson's survey, and point out any sheet or page thereof to the committee, where the distance from the intersection of his base line with the division line between farms, to the exterior bounds of the public property, is particularly noted?

A. I do not see it particularly noted.

23 Q. Could any person, whether a surveyor or not, ascertain the location and angles of the base line of Hutchinson's survey, without a compass, in any other way than by a reliance on the inner edge of the towing path?

A. I think not.

24 Q. Where is the inner edge of the towing path; is it upon the angle of the slope according to the transverse profile adopted in the construction of the canal?

A. It is on the side next to the canal.

25 Q. Is that angle preserved, or is it worn away by rains, by the travelling of men and horses, by the washing of the water of the canals, by the wearing of the towing lines, and other causes, so as in most instances to present a curve instead of an angle?

A. The angle is liable to be worn off by the towing line; in some instances it may be affected by rains. I do not know that it has been affected by the travelling of beasts in any considerable degree, in places where I have been acquainted. Neither do I know of any circumstance that has fallen under my observation, where the inner edge of the towing path has been materially altered from any of the above causes.

126 Q. If the angle of the towing path is worn off so as to present a curve instead of an angle, how would you ascertain in running along there, whether you were upon the angle?

A. I should be dictated in my judgment by the shape of the banks.

27 Q. According to Hutchinson's mode of survey, if you should err in relation to that angle, and get further from the canal than the true angle, would it not move the outer bounds of the public property proportionally?

A. It would.

36 Q. Do you consider it of any importance that the outer angles, or the angles of the exterior bounds of the canal, should correspond with each other; if so, why, and how, can they be made to correspond, when one exterior line is straight, and the other exterior line directly opposite, is crooked; or as different courses, by reason of having embankments, basins, coves, or the like?

A. I think it of the greatest importance that they should correspond with the canal and its banks; but not that they should in all cases be opposite each other: the situation of the work does not require or admit it.

37 Q. Is there any difficulty in running the exterior lines upon Trumpbour's plan, in making the angles correspond with the canal and its banks?

A. I do not know that I have any answer to that, other than I gave yesterday, of the general difficulty of running the outer lines. I believe it may be done with tolerable accuracy by bestowing sufficient labor and expense.

38 Q. Do you not know, that upon Hutchinson's plan of survey, he is frequently under the necessity of surveying the outlines of the canal according to Trumpbour's plan?

A. It is obvious from the map that the outer bounds are surveyed when there are ponds and basins, it could not well be done in any other way.

39 Q. Does the whole survey upon Hutchinson's plan, consist of a base line and offsets, except at ponds and basins; and does his