19 Q. Did Judge Trumpbour make or present a sketch upon paper to Mr. Hutchinson while so explaining his survey to him? A. It is my impression he did.

20 Q. Where did you see Mr. Hutchinson first on that day, and at what time of day?

A. I saw him first on board of the boat, just as he came on board, of the morning early, sometime before breakfast.

21 Q. How long after he came on board was it before the conversation referred to commenced?

A. It was shortly after he came on board.

22 Q. Did you hear Mr. Hutchinson make any objections to the plan of survey as explained to him by Jacob Trumpbour?

A. I do not recollect that he did.

23 Q. Did he suggest any other plan?

A. Not to my recollection.

24 Q. (By the counsel for Holmes Hutchinson.) Tell us all that passed to your knowledge in that conversation?

A. I don't know as I can tell any thing more particular about it than I have stated.

-25 Q. State in connection the conversation that passed at the time last referred to between Mr. Hutchinson and Judge Trump

bour?

A. I cannot tell the particulars of the conversation any further than I have done.

26 Q. What was that conversation about, and what took place during the same?

A. The conversation was about the survey of the canals, and as I stated, it is my impression that Mr. Trumpbour explained to him, on a piece of paper, the manner of his doing it.

27 Q. Did any thing else take place during that conversation to your knowlegde?

A. There did not, to my knowledge.

28 Q. Did you hear it said in that conversation that any other survey or was to be employed, or any thing in relation thereto ? A. I did not.

29 Q. Have you disclosed all the knowledge you have of what passed at the said conversation?

A. I have.

30 Q. How long did the said conversation continue ?

A. It was a short time-perhaps ten or twenty minutes, or half an hour.

21 Q. Was there, about the time of said conversation, any conversation between Mr. Hutchinson and Mr. Trumpbour that you did not hear?

A.

None that I know of.

32. Where was William C. Trumpbour during this conversation?

A.

He was on board the boat.

33 Q. Was the said William C. Trumpbour then in a situation to hear what passed between Judge Trumpbour and Mr. Hutchinson; and if so, state how near the parties were to each other?

A. He was in a situation to hear. They were all in the cabin, within a few feet of each other.

34 Q. How near was you to Judge Trumpbour and Mr. Hutchinson during this conversation?

A. About fifteen or twenty feet. I was in one end of the cabin. 35 Q. Was William C. Trumpbour in bed during the said conversation?

A. He was not.

36 Q. Was you in a situation where you could hear, and did hear, all that passed during the said conversation?

A. I was within hearing of them, and heard all the conversation that passed.

37 Q. Was you as near the parties during the conversation as the said William C. Trumpbour?

A. I was not.

38 Q. Did you go to the tavern after this conversation with Judge Trumpbour and Mr. Hutchinson.

A. I did not.

39 Q. (By the committee.) Do you know any other matter or thing material to the State, or to either of the memorialists; if yea, declare the same fully and particularly, as though you were hereunto specifically interrogated.

IN COMMITTEE-Present, also the Memorialists and their Counsel. John J. Tremper, a witness, produced on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, the memorialist, being sworn, deposes as follows:

1 Q. Where do you reside, and what is your age?

A.

At Port-Byron, in Cayuga county; my age is 33 years. 2 Q. Were you in company with Jacob Trumpbour at Rochester in June 1829 ?

A. I was.

3 Q. Did you return from Rochester to Port-Byron at that time in company with J. Trumpbour and Henry Seymour, Canal Commissioner?

A. I did, except about three miles eastward from Rochester. 4 Q. How did you travel at that time?

A.

We travelled as far I think as a place called Fullam's Basin, about eight miles from Rochester, in the stage, and from thence to Port-Byron in a packet-boat.

5 Q. Did you at any time while so travelling from Fullam's Basin to Port-Byron, hear any conversation between Jacob Trumpbour and said Henry Seymour, relative to the surveying of the canals, and if so, state what it was, or the substance of it?

A. I did. Mr. Seymour told Judge Trumpbour that he should include the embankment on both sides of the canal, and on the towpath side where there was no embankment he should take 12 feet from the top of the slope, or 15 feet from the water; on the berm side, he should take five feet from the top of the slope, or eight feet from the water; include all basins, feeders, lock-houses, and what land was covered with water and also what he thought was necessary for the State to have.

6 Q. Do you recollect whether Mr. Seymour gave Mr. Trumpbour directions to exercise his discretion, and to vary from this above mentioned, when he thought it necessary?

A. He did.

7 Q. Did Judge Trumpbour then inform Mr. Seymour how he intended to make the survey, and if so, what was said on that subject between them?

A. Mr. Trumpbour mentioned that he was going to run lines on both sides of the canal, mark buildings, and place monuments; and to this Mr. Seymour made no objections in my hearing.

8 Q. Did Mr. Seymour suggest any other method of making the said survey?

A. Not to my recollection.

9 Q. Do you recollect seeing Mr. Trumpbour hand to Mr. Seymour a small paper signed by himself (Mr. Trumpbour,) and Mr. Hutchinson, agreeing to divide the surveys?

A. It is my impression that I did see him hand Mr. Seymour such a paper, but I cannot speak with confidence.

10 Q. Do you recollect hearing Mr. Trumpbour say any thing to Mr. Seymour about the titles of the State to the property along the canal, and if you do, say what it was?

A. Mr. Trumpbour mentioned to Mr. Seymour that he had been to the Comptroller's office for the purpose of ascertaining what property along the lines of the canal had been released to the State, and that he found but very few releases. I dont recollect whether Mr. Seymour made any reply.

11 Q. (By the committee.) Do you know any other matter or thing material to the State or to either of the memorialists, in this investigation? If yea, declare the same; set forth the same as fully and particularly as if you were thereunto interrogated.

A. I do not.

Sworn the 28th April, 1832,

before me,

J. HAMMOND, Chairman.

JOHN J TREMPER.

(No. 12.)

Henry Seymour's Affidavit and Deposition.

Present-The Committee, the memorialists and their counsel. Henry Seymour sworn, 24th April, 1832.

1 Q. Have you in your possession, or within your control, any letter or letters by Jacob Trumpbour and addressed to you, individually or as Canal Commissioner, relative to the surveying of the canals belonging to the State?

A. I have none to my knowledge. I have handed over to Mr. Earll, my successor, all the papers relating to unsettled canal business, except what have been handed to the Comptroller. Previous to my coming from home on this occasion I looked over my files of papers and found none of the kind inquired for.

2 Q. Have you in your possession or control any papers, of any description, relating to the subject of the canal surveys?

A. I do not know that I have any. It is possible that I may have some among my unfiled letters.

3 Q. Have you, since you were subpoenaed to attend here on this examination, looked for letters and papers, with a view to ascertain whether you had such letters or not.

A. All papers relating to canal business which I have deemed important, I have filed; among these I have examined, and since I was subpoenaed to attend here; still, however, there may be such as are inquired for among those remaining unfiled.

In Commmittee, sworn

the 24th April 1832.

J. HAMMOND, Chairman.

HENRY SEYMOUR.

IN COMMITTEE-Present as before.

Q. (By the committee.) Do you know of any other matter or thing relative to this inquiry, material to the State, or the memorialists; if yea, state the same.

A. So far as I now understand the matters in controversy, I do not recollect of any thing which I can communicate, which is material to the matters in issue. If any explanation or any information be desired hereafter I shall be ready to give it; or if the committee have any questions to put to me now I will answer them. HENRY SEYMOUR.

Sworn the 25th April 1832, before

J. HAMMOND, Chairman.

I, Henry Seymour, being duly sworn, depose and say, that the annexed letter of Holmes Hutchinson is the only paper in my possession, which relates to the survey of Jacob Trumpbour on the canals of the State, and further saith not.

Oneida County, ss.

Sworn before me, the 7th

day of May 1832.

N. WILLIAMS, Circuit Judge.

HENRY SEYMOUR.

(No. 13.)

William Campbell's Deposition.

IN COMMITTEE-Present, as before.

William Campbell, a witness produced on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, the memorialist, being sworn, deposes as follows:

1 Q. Were you present at any time at an interview between Henry Seymour and William C. Bouck, Canal Commissioners, Jacob Trumpbour, David H. Burr and yourself, in the city of Albany, relative to the surveys of the canals? If so, state the time of said interview, as near as you can recollect? ·

1

A. I was present at such an interview; I cannot fix upon the time precisely, but it was sometime after the passing of the act directing such survey.

2 Q. Did the said Canal Commissioners, or either of them, in that interview, state the manner in which the proposition for surveying the said canals must be made? If so, what did he or they say upon that subject?

A. If I recollect right, Mr. Seymour said in answer to Judge Trumpbour, that propositions must be definite or specific, and in writing. This response was made to us collectively; we had had some conversation about taking the job jointly.

3 Q. Did this conversation take place in 1827? if so, at what place?

A. I think it was in 1828, at Lemet's boarding-house, in Albany, where the Commissioners lodged.

4 Q. Were you and Judge Trumpbour then members of the House of Assembly of this State?

A. We were not.

Sworn the 2d day of May,

1832, before me.

J. HAMMOND, Chairman.

WILLIAM CAMPBELL.

(No. 14.)

William C. Bouck's Deposition.

Present, the Committee, the Memorialists and their Counsel. William C. Bouck, a witness, produced on the part of Jacob Trumpbour, the memorialist, being sworn, deposes as follows:

1Q. Have you in your possession, or subject to your control, any letters written by Jacob Trumpbour to you, or to any one of the Canal Commissioners, relative to the survey of the canals; and if you have, will you produce the same?

A. I believe I have not. With the exception of the letter of the thirty-first of August 1830, corresponding in substance with the one of that date set out in Mr. Trumpbour's memorial, I have no recol