to fow jealoufy and difguft between the two Honfes.

The Lords Effingham, Manchefter, Coventry, Richmond, Suffolk, and Grafton, fpoke in fupport of the motion; and the Lord Chancellor and the Earl Bathurst fpoke in oppofition to it.

The Duke of Richmond faid, the extraordinaries of the governor of Jerfey (Gen Conway) amounted to only 301.; yet this active commander was not employed in a more active station, becaufe, Lord North faid, it could not be done without removing Lord Amherst.

The Lord Chancellor faid, if a confidence were not placed in commanders of the army in cafes of exigency, which it was not in the power of parliament to foresee, no war could be carried on. The Duke of Richmond replied, it was the extent, the abuse of the power, not the exercise of it, that was to be the fubject of inquiry; and the motion conveyed no cenfure, it only called for neceffary inquiry.

Earl Bathurft faid, As to the rumcontract, he was forry it had been made an article of the army extraordinaries; it was begun in America, not by minifters at home. With respect to governors drawing bills of exchange on the treafury, it had been permitted ever fince the year 1764, by different adminiftrations; and to his knowledge, the Governor of St Vincent's, Mr Morris, the perfon mentioned, had been recalled the moment it was known he had drawn, contrary to order, upon the treasury, and his bills not paid. Did this fhew negligence or extravagance in the first lord of the treafury?

Úpon a divifion, the numbers were, Contents 37, proxies 4, in all 41; Not contents 60, proxies 21, in all 81.

On the 8th of February Lord Shelburne explained his intentions, with refpect to his fecond motion. He propo fed a small alteration, by leaving out the concluding part, refpecting the carrying on the war against the House of Bourbon, and ending the motion thus, " that the fame may be applied to the public exigencies of the state."-Such, his Lordfhip faid, was the fate of affairs, that the national debt was approaching to 200,000,000 of money; and the landed intereft, as well as the commercial, was in fo impoverished a condition, that even if a peace was now to be concluded, we were unable to fupport the immenfity of

the annual intereft. In fuch a fituation, nothing but œconomy could save us, and a total change of that fyftem which had been pursued by the present adminiftration. He faid, that much had been expected from the East Indies towards leffening the public debt; but ministers bad contrived to proftitute the interefts of their country to the intereft of patronage, and had converted this into private advantage, to the detriment of the proprietors, the decay of the trade, and the difappointment of the public. He faid, he did not intend, by the prefent plan, to take up any particular confideration which could be provided for by a fingle act. Such, for inftance, was the civil lift. The 100,000l. a-year lately added to the civil lift could be refumed by a fpecial act of parliament; and an ingenious gentleman of the other House intended to introduce a plan for refuming and refcinding all exuberant and unneceffary grants and places. The plan that he propofed was not without precedent. in the year 1702, a commiffion of ac counts was established, and continued for a confiderable time. A commiffion differed from a committee in nothing but the name. His intention was, in the ft place, To reduce, as far as poffible, the public expenditure to eftimate; and where, from the nature of the fervice, this could not be done, to hold the offi cer who fhould exceed the grant in the ftri&teft refponfibility: 2dly, To open all contracts: 3dly, To abolish all those needlefs offices through which the public revenue paffed without check, but with much expence, before it came to its final application; and that, instead of this, it fhould be lodged directly in the Bank of England: And, 4thly, To refume all unmerited grants. On all thefe objects his Lordship was particular. He faid, that this was his plan. He did not, however, with that their Lordships, in taking it up, fhould reject it wholly because it might be partly wrong. He was in hopes that they would all connect their ideas on the fubject, and, in the present moment of diffatisfaction, fufpicion, and alarm, that a plan would be formed and adopted to anfwer the neceflities of the time, and fatisfy the wishes of the people. If this was accomplished, and independence, in confequence thereof, was reftored to parliament, he took God to witnefs, that he had no other purpofe to ferve; and that he would then, in the confcioufuels that

his

and the national property was retire to his eftate, and keep as far ould from the vortex of diffipation, and corruption. His Lordship conwith the motion above [70.] inwith the alteration juft mention

Earl of Coventry feconded the

Earl of Carlisle and Lord Fau, oppofed the idea of excluding and penfioners from the com

cent Stormont made many objecthe form of the remedy propothe redress of the evil. The Lords could not appoint a comf both Houses. They had no ver the other Houfe, and the ace of this refolution might be a quarrel between them. The of any description of men, was well as nugatory; unjuft, betowever men might differ on difpoints, they were always fuppolive the fame object in view, the good; and nugatory, because, excluded from the committee, vald decide on the report. The given to the committee were too they were unlimited, inquifitoad dictatorial. — It was propofed, gentlemen who, from cele acetry, or personal merit, had liable through the gratitude of country, or the munificence of ace, to the letter of this plan of tion, fhould be exempted from s of it, and be left in the un- poffeffion of their past advanThere was great liberality in that at bow was a true determination med, whether a man deferved a or no? Under the influence Set political principles men form judgements; and the same obthen viewed through diffimilar meappears praise-worthy or cenfuSuppofe, for inftance, Lords Boand Shaftesbury had been made ra in the time of Sir Robert Walto determine on the character and that minister, how should they ed as to his actual worth? One have feen him with predilection, teye of friendship and confirmed ty, and his judgement would have of fuch a bias: The other would wed him through the mift of preand perfonal spleen, and would

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have deemed him unworthy of every species of praife or honour.

The Duke of Grafton ftrenuously exhorted the Houfe to adopt the motion, as one of the moft neceffary, and the most promifing to produce good, that had ever been offered to their Lordfhips confideration. He replied to Lord Stormont's objection on the point of difficulty of putting the motion in practice, declaring that there would not be any; that the first step would be a conference between the two Houfes, and then the matter would proceed with eafe and regularity. Before he fat down, he took notice of an allufion of Lord Stormont, which, he faid, he conceived to be aimed at a part of his income, and that of another Noble Duke: That the grants in queftion were long face made; that the benefit of them defcended to the Noble Duke, his friend, and to him, as a part of their patrimonial eftates; that they were fecured to them by acts of parliament, on the faith of which his was fettled on his children. If, however, in a general plan of reformation, it should be thought neceffary to take that part of his eftate from him, he would rather have his children to struggle for a provifion, and fhould feel himfelf more happy in the recollection of having freed his country, than forry in having loft his patrimony; he begged, therefore, that the Noble Lords would not think he, or the Noble Duke near him, were to be deterred from fupporting a motion, founded on public good, by motives of perfonal intereft.

Lord Temple fupported the motion, and declared his readiness to resign his tellerfhip of the exchequer, though he held it as a high honour, being the price of his father's fervices. He faid, he would not be the dupe of miniftry, and be made a fool of by them, so as to refign it fingly.

The Marquis of Carmarthen explained his motives for refigning his place of Chamberlain to the Queen. He approved, he faid, of the late county-meetings; and having received a mandate, to abfent himself from them, a measure which had been univerfal, he could not think of keeping a place, honourable as it was, in the household of his Majefty, while he agreed to a meature obnoxious to government. He was pointedly fevere on Lord Sandwich, and faid, that he facrificed the glory, and perhaps the

K

fafety,

ted a colonel of a regiment at Anwho had received pay for the ching of a complete regiment, tho' he 0 men defective; and he had made refund the money into the proper His Lordship was of opinion, the redrefs ought to begin in the oSoul, and then it would come up arly in the form of a bill.

Camden defended the motion, ng he did not regard it as the fin⚫ tion of the Noble Earl near him, the motion of the majority of the

divifion the numbers were, Conproxies 5, in all 55; Not-con18, proxies 20, in all ror. produced a proteft, viz. Vestient,

CAUSE, however the wafte of money, and the profusion of usearies, may have been heretofore oked, in the days of wealth and ty, the neceflities of the prefent anno longer endure the same syf corruption and prodigality. Celcarcity of money, the diminishze of land, the finking of rents, de decline of trade, are melanchothat we are almoft arrived at tead of taxation; and yet the deare anuually increased, while the of peace are every year put to a diftance.

irkt any man confider the immenfe screafing beyond the poffibility of , with the prefent accumulation upon every article, not only of but of convenience, and even of fry ufe; and let him carry his forward to thofe additional duich muft immediately be impofed good the intereft of the aping loan, and of that debt which main unfunded, he will find, that one million and a half of intereft the provided for, befides what may ather neceffary to make good the cies of the late taxes.

der these circumstances, the favings trit and vigilant economy in every , and the application of overgrown , unmerited penfions, and ufelefs to the public fervice, are almoft *y refource left in the exhausted * our finances. But befides this argument of neceffity that presses on the prefent moment, fuch and fo at are the abuses in the management expenditure of the public money as

would call for the ftricteft inquiry and animadverfion even in the beft of times. The practice of expending immense sums without confent of parliament, under the fallacious head of contingencies and extraordinaries, the greater part of which might eafily be comprised in an estimate, but which, because fome unforeseen articles are not capable of fuch precision, the minifter has, under that colour, found out a method of expending the public money firft ad libitum, and, when it has been fo expended, has found means to induce parliament to think itself bound in honour to ratify and make it goody deferves the highest cenfure; and no minifter who shall dare to ftake the public credit for money that has not been voted, ought to be justified by a less authority than an act of indemnity. The millions which remain in confequence unexplained and unaccounted for; the shameful facility of admitting almost every claim; the improvident bargains made for the public service; the criminal neglect, and even contempt, of the few checks eftablifhed in the board of treafury, befides great part of the money being shared in its paffage among a tribe of collectors, clerks, agents, jobbers, or contractors, or paid away by official extortion, or ftopped in its courfe to breed interest for fome ingroffing individuals, are grievances which the present motion has in view to remedy.

2. But great and important as the mo→ tion is in this view of it, it is ftill more important in another; as it tends to narrow the wide-fpreading influence of the crown, that has found its way into every corner of the kingdom.

It is fufficient to allude to this grievance, without any farther enlargement; but this argument, though perhaps the ftrongest in favour of the motion, has been turned into an objection to it, as if it meant to abridge the rights of monarchy, and make the crown dependent on the parliament.

If the objection means to infinuate, that corruption is neceffary to government, we fhall leave that principle to confute itself by its own apparent iniqui ty.

That this motion is intended to diminifh the constitutional power of the crown, we deny. The conftitutional power of the crown we are no less foli citous to preferve, than we are to annibilate its unconftitutional influence. The prerogati

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prerogative rightly understood, not touched or intended to be touched by this motion, will support the crown in all the fplendour which the king's perfonal dignity requires, and with all the authority and vigour neceffary to give due effect to the executive powers of government.

It has been argued, That this is not a proper time for reformation, when all the attention of the kingdom fhould be employed upon the war, as the great and only object in the prefent time of diftrefs. To which we beg leave to infift, That the prefent is, for that very reafon, the propereft time; because nothing is fo effential to the conduct and profecution of the war, as the frugal management of that fupply by which only it can be carried on with any profpect of fuccefs. Nor ought the plan of œconomy to be any longer delayed at the rifk of a general bankruptcy; and from the hiftory of this, as well as other countries, times of neceffity have been always times of reform.

3. Becaufe we conceive, that the mode of a committee, which might be to act with a committee of the other Houfe, and might, if neceffary, be rendered durable, and vefted with due powers by an act of the whole legiflature, might bring back the public expenditure to its conftitutional principle, might devife proper regulations for opening contracts to the propofals of every fair bidder, for reforming the abufes of office, and the enormity of fees, with a variety of other abufes, particularly that of large fums of money lying in the hands of individuals to the

lofs of the ftate.

An objection has been firongly urged on the ground of an apprehenfion expreffed by fome Lords, as if they ferioufly entertained it, of its producing a quarrel between the two Houfes of Parlia ment; in confequence of which, the public bufinefs might be obftructed, by a claim on the part of the Houfe of Commons, to an exclufive right of confidering and providing for the fubjects of this motion.

Such a claim certainly cannot be fupported as a confequence of the claim of that Houfe to originate money-bills. Not a fingle Lord appeared to entertain an idea that fuch a claim would be well founded. In truth, the objection fuppo fes it to be ill founded, and that therefore the Houfe will refift it; and yet it affumes, that the Houfe of Commons

will advance and perfift in this ill-founded claim. We cannot discover any colour for such a supposition, unless we were to adopt the infinuations of those who represent the corrupt influence (which it is our wish to fupprefs) as already pervading that Houfe. Those who entertain that opinion of one House of Parliament, will hardly think lefs difrefpectfully of the other. To them it will feem a matter of indifference, whether the motion is defeated by the exertion of that influence, to excite a groundless claim in the one Houfe, or by a groundless apprehenfion of fuch a claim in the other. But we, who would be understood to think with more refpect of both, cannot entertain an apprehenfion fo injurious to the Houfe of Commons, as that they would, at this time efpecially, and on this occafion, have advanced fuch a claim.

The motion has likewise been objected to on account of its difqualifying perfons poffeffing employments or penfions to be of the propofed committee. We are far from fuppofing, that the poffeffion of place or penfion neceffarily corrupts the integrity of the poffeffor; we have feen, and the public have feen, many illuftrious inftances of the contrary: yet we can. not but fuppofe, that the public expectation of advantage from this meafure would have been lefs fanguine, if they had feen perfons poffeffing offices felected to diftinguish how far their offices were ufeful, or their falaries adequate; they perhaps would not think the poffef for of a penfion or office the fittest judge how far that penfion or office had been merited, or was neceffary. We cannot therefore think the motion juftly excep tionable on this ground; it rather ap pears to us to have been drawn with a proper attention to Noble Lords in that predicament, exempting them from a fituation which they muft neceffarily with