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MONDAY, DECEMBER 5, 1825.
IN THE SENATE,
[DEC. 5, 6, 7, 1825.
Mr. LLOYD, of Mass. was in expectation that the honorable gentleman who had submitted the resolution, would give his reasons for the measure; which had his entire concurrence. The object of appointing Committees, Mr. L. said, was to investigate the subjects brought be fore them, to digest them and present them in a condensed and luminous form, that the Senate might act on them He thought it
with less labor and more confidence. wrong to refer two subjects, which often came in collision He had the howith each other, to the same committee. At twelve o'clock, the VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED nor, last year, to be on the Committee of Commerce and STATES, ex officio PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, took the Manufactures, and had received every mark of politeness Chair, and called the Senate to order. The roll of the and attention from the gentlemen composing that commitMembers being then called over, it appeared that a quo- tee; yet he could declare that, on all questions relating to Commerce, excepting those concerning Light-houses, rum was present. On motion, a Committee was ordered to be appointed, Breakwaters, and one or two others, he had the misfortune jointly, with such Committee as should be appointed by to be in a minority. It was well known, that the two great the House of Representatives, to wait on the President of national objects of Commerce and Manufactures, in legisthe United States, and inform him that the two Houses of lating on them, frequently came in collision with each Congress are assembled, and ready to receive any communication he might have to make; and Mr. SMITH, of Md. and Mr. LLOYD, of Mass. were appointed the Committee on the part of the Senate.
The usual orders, for furnishing the Members with a certain number of newspapers, &c. were adopted, and The Senate adjourned to 12 o'clock to-morrow.
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 6, 1825.
Mr. SMITH, of Md. reported, from the Joint Committee, that they had waited on the President of the United States, agreeably to order, and that the President informed the Committee that he would make a communication to the two Houses this day.
other, and it must frequently happen that those who advocate the one would be opposed to the other. Commerce, Mr. L. said, was the leading interest of the country: it furnished all the revenue; it gave three times the amount necessary to meet the expenditure of the country; and, considering its vast importance, he should decide upon passing the resolution.
Mr. DICKERSON, of N. J. offered a few remarks in favor of the motion. He thought it improper to blend two subjects so distinct from each other as Commerce and Manufactures, especially as there were Members sufficient to fill all necessary Committees. Mr. B. bore testimony to the advantage the Committee on Commerce and Manufactures had derived from the experience and information of the gentleman from Massachusetts, and concluded by exA Message was received from the President of the Unit-pressing his strong conviction that it was the interest of the ed States, by the hands of Mr. J. ADAMS, Jun. his private country that the two subjects should be separated. Secretary; which was read, and 3,000 copies ordered to be printed, together with 1,500 of the accompanying documents. (See Appendix.)
Soon after which,
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 7, 1825.
Mr. FINDLAY, of Penn. thought the subject of Agriculture of as much importance as either Commerce or Manufactures, and proposed so to modify the resolution that it should read, one of Commerce, and one of Manufactures and Agriculture.
Mr.DICKERSON objected to the proposed amendment, The following resolution, submitted yesterday, by Mr. on the ground that there was no Committee of Agriculture, DICKERSON, was taken up: "Rezolved, That the Thirtieth Rule for conducting the and it would be inexpedient to combine it with the Combusiness of the Senate be so amended, that, instead of a mittee on Manufactures: for, although the two subjects Committee of Commerce and Manufactures, there be two were in many respects connected with each other, yet the Standing Committees, one of Commerce, and one of Manu-different views which would be taken of them by the gen tlemen composing the committee, would occasionally clash. Lactures."
Committees Commerce, Manufactures, Roads and Canals.
[DEC. 9, 1825.
committee as well defined as those of any of the Standing Committees.
Resolved, That a committee be appointed to inquire into the expediency of abolishing imprisonment for debt. Mr. J. moved the immediate consideration of this resolution; but, some opposition being made to this course, he withdrew the motion. The Senate adjourned to Friday.
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1825.
obtained leave, introduced a bill for the relief of Clark Agreeably to notice, Mr. NOBLE asked, and, having
Mr. HAYNE, of South Carolina, said, it was easy to perceive that the gentleman from New Jersey looked to Manufactures as a separate and distinct interest. If it had The question was then taken on Mr. FINDLAY'S amendbeen otherwise, he would have accepted the amendmentment, and lost. proposed by the gentleman from Pennsylvania. Mr. H. The question was then taken on Mr. DICKERSON's mosaid he protested against such a doctrine. Experience tion to create two committees, and carried; Yeas 20, Nays 9. had proved that much benefit had been derived from com- Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, submitted the following mitting to one committee the subjects of commerce and resolution: manufactures, and he would advocate any motion to add the subject of agriculture-willing that those three great national interests should be inseparably connected. Mr. H. thought, if they were to legislate with a view to have separate and individual interests on those subjects, great misery to the country at large would be the result. It would be impossible for them to legislate wisely on manufactures, if they had not, at the same time, a distinct view of the effect on the commerce of the country. To illustrate the advantage of combining the two subjects in one committee, on which gentlemen conversant with each would be appointed, Mr. H. adverted to the great benefit which the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures had, at the last session, in its deliberations on the tariff bill, de rived from the counsels of the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. LLOYD.) This fact was well known for the value of his knowledge and experience on that Committee was the subject of remark at the time. What, said Mr. H. was the object of legislating on manufactures? Was it to provide articles for the domestic use of the country? No-it was to make them a subject of commerce, by exporting what was manufactured, or effecting the importation of the produce of other nations, and it would be impossible for them to pass a law which would affect the manufactures of the country, which would not have a direct operation on its commerce. He hoped these great objects would go on together, and that the proposition to separate them would not prevail.
Mr. SMITH said nothing was more common than to introduce innovations in legislation; the subjects of manufactures and commerce had been for a series of years connected in one committee, and there was then no complaint, because these two great objects are so similar, that, in attempting to do much good to one, there is danger of injuring the other. A similar innovation took place in the other House; a Committee of Manufactures was instituted, and they went on for the promotion of that particular object without regard to the other; and, if the Senate followed the example of the other House, they must expect the same result. Commerce and Manufactures ought ever to go hand in hand, so as not to destroy or distress each other; and in the Committee there should be gentlemen who were favorable to manufactures, and others who were favorable to commerce, so as to check any motion or attempt to injure either the one or the other.
Mr. ROWAN observed that an Agricultural Society might be necessary for the ten miles square, as the soil was decidedly capable of great improvement. He thought they had better leave agriculture as it is-it was not within the scope of the powers of this body. The power to regulate commerce was expressly given, and the connexion between that and manufactures led to the establishment of a Committee of Commerce and Manufactures-but he should always vote against any proposition tending to regulate Agriculture.
Mr. N. stated that Clark McPherrin was a soldier on the
Peace Establishment, stationed at Fort Howard, who became deranged and left the post, and was found eighteen days afterwards, half a mile from the Fort, under a haystack, frostbitten to such a degree as to require the amputation of both feet. His case had been represented to the War Department, but there was no law in existence to afford him relief; this had induced Mr. N. to introduce the bill.
The bill was read and passed to a second reading. Mr. moved a second reading of the bill to-day, but the motion was objected to, and lost of course.
Mr. HAYNE submitted the following resolution: Resolved, That uniform laws throughout the United States, on the subject of Bankruptcy, ought to be estab
ROADS AND CANALS.
The Senate then proceeded to the consideration of the following resolution, submitted by Mr. RUGGLES on Wednesday last:
Resolved, That there be added to the thirtieth rule for conducting the business of the Senate, the following: "And a committee, to consist of five members, on Roads and Canals."
Mr. RUGGLES said he was not aware it was necessary to offer any remarks on the proposed amendment to the rule. The subject of Roads and Canals had been before Congress every session for a considerable time, and this session it formed a part of the President's Message, and it was necessary that a Standing Committee should be ap pointed as well for the reference of that portion of the Message, as to inquire into the matters relating to the ters. subject, which would come before them from other quarCommerce and Manufactures had been divided: those of a A few days ago, the duties of the Committee on Committee on Roads and Canals would be equally laborious, and it was of importance that a committee should be appointed.
probably be aware of the extent to which they would go in Mr. HOLMES, of Maine, said, the Senate would not establishing a rule of this kind. They had heretofore been satisfied with appointing a committee from session to sesMr. HOLMES, of Maine, said the duties of the Com- and Canals, it would be proper to have a Standing Comsion; but if they were all agreed on the subject of Roads mittee on Commerce and Manufactures were well under-mittee; that is, if the Senate agreed not only that the Gestood, because they had been defined by practice, but, as neral Government had the power to construct Roads and regarded the duties of a Committee on Agriculture, he Canals, but that it would always be expedient to do so. If, could not imagine what they could be, and he thought that however, the Members of the Senate were not all of opithey ought to be defined before such a committee was nion that they possessed the power, it would be better to established. to a Select Committee. go on as they had done heretofore, and refer the subject
Mr. FINDLAY said there were several cases in which such a committee could act; it was impossible to tell what business might arise, and he thought the duties of that lost-yeas 14, nays 19.
The question was then taken on the resolution, and
DEC. 9, 1825.
Committee on Agriculture.
The Senate then proceeded to the consideration of the sequently, without explanation, an inference might be following resolution, submitted by Mr. FINDLAY: drawn by some of inconsistency between the two votes. "Resolved, That the 30th rule of the Senate be amend- That amendment, however, was resisted by him upon the ed, by adding thereto 'a Committee on Agriculture.'" sole and identical principle which, in his opinion, operatMr. FINDLAY said, that, when he brought forward the ed with the greatest force in favor of the present resolysubject on a former day, it was urged in opposition, that tion-the principle of inexpediency, in referring the subthe subject of Agriculture was not within the scope of jects of manufactures and agriculture to the same comthat body, and that they could not, therefore, legislate re-mittee, and an inexpediency as great as to continue to refer specting it beyond the District of Columbia. Mr. F. said, commerce and manufactures to the same committee. All it was his opinion that the three great branches of domes- the arguments, so eloquently urged on that day by the tic industry, Commerce, Manufactures, and Agriculture, gentlemen from Massachusetts and New Jersey, for a sewere all equally entitled to the care and protection of the parate committee on each of the two last subjects, appl Government. The Senate had directed the establishment ed in equal vigor for a separate committee on agriculture. of a Committee on Manufactures as well as on Commerce, Not that he believed the interests of all these cardinal and he saw no reason why Agriculture should not receive branches of industry were not inseparably connected-for the same attention from the Senate. It might be alleged, he cordially united with the gentleman from South Carothat the connexion between Commerce and Agriculture lina in that particular; but it was a connection in their imrendered a committee on the latter subject unnecessary. portance to society, and in favor due from the Government; To this position he thought there might be exceptions. In nor that he believed they were not sisters, as happily exlegislating on Commerce, certain laws might be passed, pressed by the gentleman from Maryland-but sisters, which might operate to the depression of Agriculture; chiefly, in the affections of this House. They could be haws encouraging to a great extent the importation of arti- received separately; and, like those sciences having one cles in a raw state which might come in competition with common bond, must be examined in detail-pcculiar tathe home materials which Agriculture furnished in abund- lents could, in distinct committees, be brought to bear on ance. Things could not be in this state without the Agri- the investigation of each; and, by a proper analysis and culturists having a right to complain, and all their com- scrutiny of subjects of legislation, the same utility is atplaints would amount to nothing at all, if there were no tained as by a proper division of labor in the common committee to which their petitions could be referred. All affairs of life. That there was no employment for such subjects coming before the Senate that might particularly a committee, had been again pressed by the ingenious interfere with the interests of Agriculture, ought to be re- gentleman from Maine: but, in addition to the answer ferred to such a committee, who would report a modifica- given by the mover of the resolution, he would suggest, tion of the laws, or suggest new ones. Mr. F. concluded that all questions of direct taxes on land; all internal duby saying, he had submitted this resolution from the dic- ties and excises; and all imposts, no less than questions of tates of duty, and he did not think it necessary to say any foreign and internal commerce, have a powerful, and, thing further on the subject. often, an immediate influence on the interests of agricul Mr. HOLMES, of Maine, wished very much that the ture. And, in a territory like ours, of between two and gentleman from Pennsylvania had informed them what three millions of square miles; with two-thirds of its posuch a committee would have to do. Could any of them pulation exclusively engaged in agriculture; with annual know what its duties would consist in? Could he point exports from agriculture of about forty millions; and with, out any one thing it could report upon; any thing relating probably, fifteen millions of our duties paid, in the end, to the raising of cotton or of cattle? What power would by the tillers of the soil, who consume, and not by the the committee have? Was it to afford information to the merchants, who import-it is impossible not to find subpeople on the subject of agriculture, or to bring in re-jects peculiarly proper, in some stage of their progress ports on which Congress was to act? Mr. H. said he was through this House, to be referred to such a committee. opposed to the appointment of a committee of informa-True it is, that the subject, as heretofore, might be retion; but, if the gentleman would point out any one thing ferred to other committees; and it is equally true, that which properly belonged to such a committee, or shew all subjects, whatever, might be referred to a Committee how the committee was to act, he did not know but he of the whole House. True it is, also, that the duties of should be disposed to indulge him with his vote; but he such a committee are not specifically defined; nor are the confessed he could, himself, think of no one thing: it was duties of any other committee; but depend on the express perhaps, owing to his want of understanding on the sub-object of the committee, and the nature of subjects comject, but he could not see what the committee would ing before Congress. If those concerning agriculture are have to do. If he were one of that committee, and that gen- now small, he hoped the prosperity of it would long kcep tleman were the chairman, and could give no further in- them small. But, that her interests were daily touched, formation on the subject than he had now done to the Se- directly or indirectly, and might be considered by reports rate, he should, certainly, be greatly at a loss what to do. of other committees being referred to the committee beMr. FINDLAY, in reply, referred to the article of spi- fore any final measures are taken, will be manifest, by rits-foreign spirits might come in competition with do- adverting, not only to the effect of the tariff, as before mestic ones, and affect the agriculturist in the grain-grow-named, on some kinds of produce, but to the duties on ing States: a prohibition of foreign potatoes might be pro-sugar, as affecting the agriculture of that section suited posed, which would also interest the agricultural interest; to the cane; on hemp, as affecting another section; on and many other questions might be mentioned which it would be proper to refer to a committee on the subject. But, supposing the committee had nothing to do, then the gentleman certainly could not imagine that any thing of consequence could result from the appointment of it.
woollen and cotton goods, as affecting the produce of other sections; tobacco, another. As a strong illustration how agriculture may be affected by duties on articles consumed merely, and not grown here, something more than half a million in value of salt is annually imported, paying Mr. WOODBURY, of New Hampshire, observed, that a duty of twenty cents per bushel, and a large proportion he should vote for the resolution now before the Senate, of it being consumed by the farmers of the North, this notwithstanding the strong opposition to it which had been duty is a tax on them. The hardy yeomanry of the manifested. Yet he would not have risen to offer any country may ask, in time, to be heard on these, and simiremarks upon its passage, but for the circumstance, that, lar topics: and, though groaning under no such tithes and on Wednesday, he had voted against the amendment poor-rates as to require for relief the cumbrous system of proposed to the Committee on Manufactures, and, con-British Corn Laws; though not wont to be so clamorous
Imprisonment for Debt.
[DEC. 9, 1825.
as those engaged in some other pursuits; though not the United States, the subject embraced by this resoluthundering at your doors so often with petitions, memo- tion would come before that committee. He hoped, rials, and remonstrances; yet they have the same consti- therefore, the gentleman would permit his resolution to tutional right to notice, are as deeply interested in all the lie on the table till the Standing Committees of that legitimate objects of national legislation; and, as Lords House were appointed, and it would then be referred to of the Soil, were known, by every hearer, to yield in no one of them, under whose examination it would more human excellence to the Lords of the Spindle. The other immediately come. House had a similar committee, and he trusted, this would be deemed an additional argument for one here.
Mr. HOLMES, of Maine, said that the gentleman had endeavored to define the duties of a Committee on Agriculture; but every one that he had mentioned, properly belonged to, and was always considered by, the Committee on Finance. As regarded the tariff, or a tax affecting any article of commerce, the Committee of Finance was properly the Committee of Agriculture for the Senate. Mr. H. did not mean to disregard the interests of agriculture on the contrary, he thought it the great interest on which all the other interests rested. The present question was merely the proper mode of transacting the business of the Senate; but, as far as the agriculture of the country was concerned, having a bearing on taxes, and on the manufactures of the country, the Committee of Finance was the true committee to which its interests ought to be referred.
Mr. JOHNSON said, it was the good fortune of his friend from Massachusetts, to have a Presidential recommendation in behalf of his favorite measure to satisfy his mind. But, for himself, Mr. J. said, he was obliged to bring forward his favorite project in the same manner, and ask for it the same course that it had taken the two preceding sessions. He had not opposed the proposition for a bankrupt law; but, if he had that subject not so much at heart as the measure he had now, for the third time, presented to the Senate, he hoped he should be pardoned for asking an opportunity of bringing it forward. He said this was the third time he had introduced this proposition. The first session, the bill for abolishing imprisonment for debt, passed this body, but unfortunately it was at the close of the session, and, like every thing which at that period goes from one house to the other, it was swallowed up and engulphed, for want of time, with the other unfinished business of both Houses. That was the fate of the bill the Senate acted on; and, last session, when he again introduced the subject, he was unsuccessYEAS-Messrs. Barton, Bell, Benton, Chase, Dicker-ful. Mr. J. said, there was not a member of the commuson, Edwards, Findlay, Hayne, Hendricks, Johnson, of nity who would deny the isolated proposition for which Ken. Johnston of Lou. Kane, Knight, Marks, Noble, Rob- he contended, that imprisonment for debt ought to be bins, Ruggles, Seymour, Smith, Thomas, Willey, Wood-abolished; yet for want of perfection in the details, it was, bury-22.
The question was then taken on the resolution of Mr. FINDLAY, and decided by Yeas and Nays, as follows:
NAYS-Messrs. Branch, Chandler, Clayton, Cobb,
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT.
The Senate then proceeded to consider the following resolution, submitted on Wednesday last, by Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky:
last session, lost by the casting vote of the presiding officer. He denied, most unequivocally, that this subject was embraced in that of an uniform system of bankruptcy; he denied that it had ever been embraced in any system here or in Great Britain, or in any other proposition made here by a standing committee, and, if his life were spared, he should submit it annually as long as he had the honor of a seat on that floor, although, out of respect to his associates, he should never complain of the result, if he failed, but content himself with having discharged his duty Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to inquire to God, his country, and his conscience. He had stated into the expediency of abolishing Imprisonment for Debt. emphatically, and he should repeat with the same emMr. MILLS, of Massachusetts, said this was a subject phasis, that no individual in that House, or the other which had occupied much of the time and attention of Branch of the Government, had been known to raise his the Senate, and he should be glad to have it thoroughly voice against the propriety of the proposition to abolish examined, that some course might be adopted, some pro-imprisonment for debt. They had only differed on the position made, which should meet with the approbation details of the measure. Imprisonment for debt was a of a majority of the Senate. But he was opposed to the stain on us as a Christian nation, and he thought that the appointment of a Select Committee at the present time wisdom of Congress, whilst it sanctioned the object of a for that purpose. Amongst the great variety of subjects bill for its abolishment, would be capable of communicatin the President's Message, Mr. M. said, there was one ing to it a vivifying principle. He was not so fortunate he had recommended-and he thanked him for it-the as to have his proposition recommended in the President's establishment of an uniform system of bankruptcy in the Message, but he hoped, though it was only sanctioned by United States, in pursuance of the express delegation of a humble member of this body, it would have as good an that power to Congress by the Constitution; and it was opportunity for investigation as that which came with the easy to see that it was a subject connected with the pro- sanction of the Chief Magistrate. position now brought forward; and, whenever they exer- Mr. NOBLE, of Indiana, could not vote for referring cised that power, all the evils, of which there was so the subject to a Select Committee. It had been before much complaint, would be effectually remedied. As soon the Senate three years; had been most amply discussed; as the Standing Committees were appointed, that part of and, as far as he knew, there was no one in favor of the the Message which related to the subject of bankruptcy abstract proposition of imprisonment for debt; but all would be referred to one of them, probably the Com-were willing to abolish it. He would say now, that whenmittee on the Judiciary, and, when it was so referred, ever the subject should be brought before that body, he that committee would then have before it the very sub- should vote for the bill if it proposed giving to the honject to which the gentlemen now wished to call the at- est creditor a right to compel a cession of property, but tention of the Senate, and for which he wished the ap- not otherwise. The Committee on the Judiciary would pointment of a Select Committee. Mr. M. was of opinion consist of men of talents and experience, and a subject that, where two subjects were so intimately blended to- which would vitally affect millions of persons within gether, that they could not legislate on one without the United States, certainly would not be passed over. involving the other, both ought to be referred to the same committee. In digesting and preparing an act to establish an uniform system of bankruptcy throughout
Mr. MILLS said he should be sorry to be misunderstood by the gentleman from Kentucky, or by any other : his only wish, in the few remarks he offered, was to in