25. Definitized Research Development Test and Evaluation Introduced Appears Contract for the F-111, between the Air Force and on page on page General Dynamics Corp., executed May 22, 1964-- 26. Documents to support chronology and summary of statements introduced by John Walsh. A description of these documents appears on pp. 637, 638- 27. Classified.. 28A. Letter dated Sept. 23, 1966, to the Secretary of Defense, Proceedings of April 15, 1970_. April 16, 1970_ April 22, 1970_ April 24, 1970_ April 28, 1970_. *May be found in the files of the subcommittee. 578 (*) 607 (*) 649 677 (*) 677 (*) 677 (*) 677 (*) 465 521 575 603 647 TFX CONTRACT INVESTIGATION (Second Series) WEDNESDAY, APRIL 15, 1970 U.S. SENATE, PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS, OF THE COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10:08 a.m., in room 3302, New Senate Office Building, pursuant to Senate Resolution 308, agreed to February 16, 1970, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Members of the subcommittee present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Senator Lee Metcalf, Democrat, Montana; and Senator Edward J. Gurney, Republican, Florida. Members of the professional staff present: Jerome S. Adlerman, general counsel; John J. Walsh, investigator; John Brick, investigator; Charles H. Cromwell III, investigator; Philip W. Morgan, chief counsel to the minority; Thomas E. Nunnally, accountant; and Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. (Members of the subcommittee present at time of reconvening: Senators McClellan, Metcalf, and Gurney.) The CHAIRMAN. Call your next witness. Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Sullivan. The CHAIRMAN. Be sworn. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. SULLIVAN. I do. TESTIMONY OF LEONARD SULLIVAN, JR. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sullivan, identify yourself for the record, please, sir. Mr. SULLIVAN. My name is Leonard Sullivan, Jr. I am a native of New York, a resident of Washington, D.C., and my job is Deputy Director of Defense Research and Engineering for Southeast Asia Matters. The CHAIRMAN. I didn't get the last of it. Deputy Director of Defense Research and Engineering for Southeast Asia Matters? it? Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have before you your biography, a copy of Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. If you will verify that, sir, I will let it be placed in the record to give the background of your experience and qualifi cations. Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir; I believe it is accurate. The CHAIRMAN. Very well, let the biography be printed in the record at this point. (The document follows:) BIOGRAPHY OF LEONARD SULLIVAN, JR., DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF DEFENSE RESEARCH AND ENGINEERING FOR SOUTHEAST ASIA MATTERS Mr. Sullivan was born in New York City in 1925. He was graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he received B.S. and M.S. Degrees in Aeronautics in 1949, and the Degree of Aeronautical Engineer in 1950. (A.E. is the engineering equivalent of a Ph. D. with doctoral thesis replaced by applied science courses.) Mr. Sullivan served in the enlisted ranks of the U.S. Marine Corps from 1944 to 1946. During the summer of 1948, Mr. Sullivan worked at the Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation as an aerodynamicist on the Navy's F10F variable sweep fighter aircraft. After graduation in 1950, he was permanently employed by Grumman. From 1950 until 1954, Mr. Sullivan worked in the Grumman Missile Group on the development of supersonic surface-to-surface missiles, first as an aerodynamicist and finally as "acting" Project Engineer of the RIGEL Tactical Missile. From 1954 until 1957, Mr. Sullivan worked in Grumman's Preliminary Design Group assisting in the preparation of proposals such as the Navy Missileer concept, the E-1B and E-2 early warning aircraft, the S-2E ASW patrol aircraft, and the Army's OV-1 observation aircraft. During this time, he was also active in establishing an operations analysis group and worked on several company sponsored VTOL projects. From 1957 until 1960, Mr. Sullivan was the Assistant Chief of Preliminary Design and contributed heavily to the successful A-6 and EAGLE missile proposals and to several other missile proposals such as MAULER, SUBROC and HOUNDDOG. He also played a contributing role in the company sponsored Gulfstream executive transport, and in space proposals such as the NASA's Orbiting Astronautical Observatory. From 1960 until 1964, Mr. Sullivan was Grumman's Chief of Preliminary Design (title changed to Manager of Advanced Systems in 1963). During this time, successful proposals were submitted for the EA-6A electronic warfare aircraft, the C-2 carrier-suitable transport aircraft, the NASA ECHO cannister, the General Dynamics/Grumman F-111B, and the APOLLO/LEM vehicle. Other proposal efforts included ground effects vehicles, tri-Service VTOL (C-140), Navy VAL attack aircraft (A-7), COIN aircraft (OV-10), TYPHON, and PHOENIX missile systems, NIMBUS and OGO satellites, and Long Island Railroad and Hudson Tube railroad cars. His group conducted continuing studies of VAX and VSX aircraft, Lunar Roving vehicles, CONDOR missile, and operations analyses in ASW, Air Defense, Attack, Recce, Space uses, Transportation Systems, etc. In July 1964, Mr. Sullivan severed all connections with Grumman to join the Office of the Director of Defense Research and Engineering. On 16 August 1964, he was appointed Deputy Assistant Director for Combat Systems and assigned fulltime responsibilities for the Army's LANCE, SERGEANT, and PERSHING missiles-with an additional ad hoc role in the F-111B/PHOENIX system. On 2 August 1965, Mr. Sullivan was appointed the Assistant Director for Combat Systems, but on 20 September, ODDR&E was reorganized and Mr. Sullivan was appointed Assistant Director, Tactical Systems Review and Analysis. (The F-111 project moved to a different office at that time.) In January of 1966, the Senior PROVOST Steering Group was formed to concentrate on specific RDT&E problems associated with the war in Vietnam, and this grew to be a fulltime effort following Mr. Sullivan's first trip to Vietnam in May of 1966. On 26 August, he was made Acting Deputy Director for Southeast Asia Matters with the formal appointment following on 16 November 1966. Since that time, Mr. Sullivan's total effort has been devoted to the creation and expediting of specific RDT&E programs to help with the Vietnam war, ranging from medical improvements and personal equipment to counter-mortar/ mine/artillery devices, from improved helicopter ordnance to more accurate artillery and aircraft delivered ordnance, and from battlefield surveillance devices to electronic warfare systems. He is presently deeply involved in the RDT&E problems of Vietnamization of that war, from training/translation problems to assisting in appropriate equipment selection for Vietnamese forces. Mr. Sullivan presently lives in Spring Valley, Washington, with his wife Margo Blackley, and his two children, Dianne and Jason. The CHAIRMAN. Very well, Mr. Sullivan, I believe you have a brief prepared statement. Mr. SULLIVAN. I do, sir. The CHAIRMAN. All right, you may proceed with it, if you like, and read it into the record. Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the past 10 years, I have been involved with the F-111 program on four separate occasions. The CHAIRMAN. Over the last 10 years? Mr. SULLIVAN. Over the last 10 years. The CHAIRMAN. You were with it almost before it started, were you not? Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes. I was with it on the programs that essentially preceded it, the SOR-183 for the Air Force and the Eagle missile program for the Navy. The CHAIRMAN. Then you are pretty well familiar with it. Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Mr. SULLIVAN. First, in 1961-62, I led the Grumman preliminary design team which worked under General Dynamics leadership in the preparation of the four rounds of proposals. Grumman's role in that effort, as you know, was to assist in assuring that the F-111B design would meet Navy requirements. Second, in 1963-64, while I was still at Grumman, my preliminary design engineers assisted in the preparation of the various WIP, SWIP, and CWIP design studies in an effort to remove weight from the F-111B configuration. Third, in 1964-65, as a member of the Office of the Director of Defense Research and Engineering, I chaired an ad hoc study group looking into problems associated with the F-111B development and with the parallel development of the Phoenix air-to-air missile system which was to be the primary armament of the F-111B. I will speak in more detail concerning the results of that study. In that same time period, I also served briefly on the so-called "Asher committee" of OSD which was tasked to explore the possible cost penalties to the Government associated with the General Dynamics subcontractor team. The CHAIRMAN. Why was the Government to be penalized? I don't quite understand the cost penalties to the Government. There are not many penalties in here against the contractor. Mr. SULLIVAN. No; this was not a penalty in the contract sense. The CHAIRMAN. No; you say there is a penalty against the Government. How is the Government to be penalized? Mr. SULLIVAN. There was a question raised as to whether the use of an extensive subcontractor team would raise the total cost of the F-111 to the Government. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, if they had additional supervision and checking on it, it was provided the Government had to pay the cost? Mr. SULLIVAN. Well, the question was of tiered overhead, double transportation charges, this type of thing. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Mr. SULLIVAN. Lastly, in 1967-1968, in my present role as Deputy Director of Defense Research and Engineering for Southeast Asia Matters, I recommended the expenditure of $5.1 million in emergency funds to tailor the electronics configuration of the F-111A prior to its combat tests in Southeast Asia. I consider further discussion of these configuration changes to be classified. The CHAIRMAN. Those are classified? Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir; the equipments that were involved, that were put into the airplane prior to this deployment. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. We may take that in executive session. I haven't discussed that with you. We will confer about it and will probably have it in executive session. Were those significant, these configuration changes? Mr. SULLIVAN. I don't think they are significant to the hearings you are running here; no. The CHAIRMAN. Sir? Mr. SULLIVAN. I don't think they are significant to the hearings you are running here. The CHAIRMAN. To these hearings? The CHAIRMAN. Very well, proceed. Mr. SULLIVAN. Unless you wish to explore any of these other involvements, I intend to concentrate my testimony on the conclusions and recommendations of the ad hec group I chaired in the fall of 1964. In the late summer of 1964, it became apparent that the Navy was going to require additional development funds for both the F-111B, and for its Phoenix missile system. On August 24, 1964, Dr. Harold Brown, the D.D.R. & E., notified the Navy and the Air Force that he was forming a small ad hoc group to study F-111B and Phoenix status, and particularly the interaction between them, naming myself as chairman, and soliciting their cooperation. Representatives from other offices within D.D.R. & E., from the Navy, and from the Air Force SPO worked with me in studying both programs, and in preparing a final report which was addressed to Dr. Brown on October 1, 1964. The CHAIRMAN. You were working for and under Dr. Brown's supervision? |