Representative CLEVELAND. Maybe that is why we are having so ch trouble getting this concept through down here.

Chairman METCALF. Congressman Dellenback?

Representative DELLENBACK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I realize we still have some witnesses who have a plane problem, so ill be short.

I would agree with my colleague in thanking you very much for ning. This is very helpful to us. I would hope, Mr. Chairman, that some stage of the game, it might be possible for us to have made ilable to us this kind of a tape, because I can visualize the tape ich has been shown to us, being shown here among some of our leagues, and I would hope if that is possible, to arrange for it. Let me ask just a couple of questions.

Chairman METCALF. The witness was nodding, and he said yes, so will follow through, and see that the tape is available. Mr. TAFF. Would you like to keep that one?

Chairman METCALF. Yes.

Senator ROME. It will save considerable mailing costs under the

V rates.

Chairman METCALF. We will frank it back to you.

Representative DELLENBACK. This is reverse revenue sharing.

Mr. Taff's testimony, he made reference to the fact that the 1973 sion, the new assembly rules permitted coverage of committee etings.

New formats were created, and so forth.

Has there been a great deal of coverage of committee meetings? Mr. TAFF. It is increasing. We attempt to decide which committee etings would be of interest to the State. Several hearings have been Id in a situation that permitted phone-in by people anywhere in the ate to the committee members, which by the way was in the editorial introduced.

They commented on that as being something that New York State d others should take a look at.

Representative DELLENBACK. As one who feels very strongly about ening up meetings, and the reason I was pushing on this question, nator Rome, is that I feel strongly that is the way it ought to be. There have to be a few issues that are decided in privacy. Some of feel that is not necessarily so, and you again back up that idea. You can open up the whole procedures, and once you have the rule t, and once it is understood that it will be, it will function perfectly ll, and I think televising of the committee proceedings would be ry helpful.

I like the idea that control cannot be among the political figures, cause if we start to determine what is going to be televised, what mmittees will be televised, what proceedings will be televised, we ut this thing on an entirely different basis, so your testimony about. ecisionmaking being in the hands of the broadcasting personnel, I eartily applaud.

It seems to me that is the way it must be, and I am pleased with our statement Mr. Taff, about never to your knowledge has any political figure attempted to influence the journalistic judgment, that is a fine statement, that is very encouraging, I am delighted to hear

Mr. TAFF. It is a fact, to my knowledge, that nobody has ever been contacted. Obviously, I was not at any time. If I had been, I would have refused the request.

Representative DELLENBACK. I will withdraw further questions, at this time, but there may be some additional ones.

I would like to get some statistics about costs, and if I might ask unanimous consent to also submit written interrogatories to the witnesses, and get answers, that will be helpful.

I close by merely saying I am persuaded, and we have been taking the stand with other witnesses up here before us, that if we once opened up this thing, we will find the kind of change which is beneficial.

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I do not think there are grave weaknesses in the legislative processes my State or in the Federal process, but I think we can do some shaping up, and I am persuaded that everybody will benefit; the public will benefit, our process will benefit in just every way.

We are grateful to you for your time.

Chairman METCALF. We are grateful to you all, to you, Senator Rome, to your colleagues, your companions, and I am sorry that I have to go over to vote on the minimum wage bill.

We have demonstrated here that we are truly a group of people who have different ideas, but we have learned to accommodate those ideas, and I think that everyone of us is proud of Congress as an institution.

You are talking to three former State legislators, and I think one of the great experiences of each of our lives is the fact we did serve in the legislature, and did undergo some of the travails and gained experience.

The State legislature is a special sort of thing, of course, with differences between that and the Congress. It is easier I think to cover the State legislatures, at least in Montana you are all gathered on the floor, and your desk is your office, and things of that sort, whereas we here are scattered all over the top of Capitol Hill, but nevertheless, the experience that you gain, and the description of that experience, Senator Rome, and your colleagues, has certainly helped us to understand and broaden some of the policies that we have, and I am delighted that you are here, we are honored to have you come down here and tell us about that, and I congratulate you on your legislative activities in Connecticut.

You pioneered some of those things, and perhaps we can follow your lead.

Senator ROME. Thank you very much.

Chairman METCALF. Senator Chiles, one of the very distinguished members of this committee has been a leader of congressional reform since he came to the Senate. Every time we try to open up a committee meeting, and have an executive session in public, Senator Chiles stands up and talks about the Sunshine State, and he talks about the sunshine rule which has been adopted in the Florida Legislature. Today he is over in the Senate offering amendments, such as the one he placed on the minimum wage bill. Otherwise he would have been here. But I am delighted on his behalf and on the committee's behalf to welcome the representatives from Florida to tell us how you opened up the Florida Legislature.

FRED J. REBMAN, PRESIDENT, ON BEHALF OF COMMUNITY TELEVISION, INC.

Fred J. Rebman, president and general manager of station WJCT-TV in Jackonville, Florida, has worked in that capacity since 1962. Prior to joining WJCTTV, he worked as a free-lance television producer and director. A graduate of Michigan State University, Mr. Rebman worked on the M.S.U. faculty for 5 ears in various television, development and administrative positions. He is a nember of the Board of Managers of the Public Broadcasting Service.

Mr. REBMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We are a public radio station, and also television, and I would like o introduce Representative William Birchfield, and I think I would ike to mention after 10 years of using television to extend government to the living room, first in the city of Jacksonville, on a rather lengthy experiment, and then in the legislature, we used television on a very frequent basis to make presentations of this kind so that television in Florida is really a two-way process, and not just a one-way broadcasting process, so we would like to show you our tape presentation of our ideas about government in the sunshine and public television coverage of government.

VIDEO TAPE OF FLORIDA STATE LEGISLATURE

Jacksonville's public broadcasting station WJCT pioneered regular TV broadcast of public meetings over 10 years ago we would like to claim great foresight and wisdom for this important discovery but actually it was a case of no money and a tiny staff and led to the eyewitness approach to local public affairs-providing live coverage of the entire event was all WJCT could afford to do.

Using one television camera, the station aired proceedings of all major governmental bodies during the evening hours.

The idea caught on with a public frustrated by interpretive and capsulized event reporting and in 1968, the Ford Foundation provided seed money for communitywide expansion of the experiment which literally turned the city of Jacksonville into a television studio.

The one-camera black and white unit was shelved and a two-camera miniaturized remote unit-the "mini-mote"-replaced the bulky, obtrusive unit of the past with a modern, wheeled, unobtrusive moving technical center designed by cooperating electronics firms and WJCT

engineers.

In time, new funding came in from the Federal Emergency School Assistance Act and a new consolidated city government, and the twocamera black and white unit gave way to a full color facility. Live TV school board sessions had become a major aid to orderly desegregation-and a dozen other government activities were beamed into local living rooms 5 nights a week.

But it was not just technical capability which enabled this extensive experiment in television. The 1967 session of the Florida Legislature had enacted what has become known as Florida's government in the sunshine law. All public meetings must, under this act, be publicopen to all media as well as to all citizens.

Government in the living room was really nothing more than a logical extension of government in the sunshine.

After 8 years of experimentation with early metropolitan government, WJCT and the leadership of the Florida House and Senate

created a statewide network on the eight public television stations in Florida to present the living room legislature.

Like the city experiment the State project operated on a shoestring for 1973, the first year. Technical equipment was donated by industry and personnel put together from the State's public television stations. The important thing, however, was that it worked.

Each house was covered by two cameras, each placed in a location. planned for maximum effectiveness, and minimum disruption of the legislative process.

Two more cameras were assigned to committees. The floor activities in each area were fed to video tape machines in mobile trailers outside the capitol.

Then, each weekday evening an hour of highlights and interviews were fed over the Florida portion of the public broadcasting service to public TV stations in Pensacola, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Gainesville, Orlando, Tampa, and Miami. The potential audience for any single program: 85 percent of the States' citizens.

For the 1974 session, the legislature appropriated nearly $1 million for a professional-level technical coordination center, and it has provided the space for it within the zealously guarded, overcrowded, and precious space of the capitol itself.

In addition to facilities money $365,000 was appropriated for the 53 hours of evening programing which will bring the 1974 session of the Florida Legislature into the State's living rooms. "Today in the Legislature" now seems to be a permanent part of Florida's government, a logical extension, again, of the State's Government in the Sunshine Act.

Nearly a decade after WJCT began bringing government to the people, what have been the results?

Jacksonville's supervisor of elections indicates Jacksonville's citizens vote in greater numbers than their counterparts. Ten percent more registered voters cast their ballots on election day in Duval County and the supervisor points out a clear correlation between the time that this increased voting began and TV meeting broadcasts.

There is also evidence to indicate that Jacksonville's voters are better informed than the average citizen. Many highly complex government changes have been aptly handled at the ballot box, not the least of which is the new city government itself, hailed by Federal agencies as a national model.

There is also evidence that Jacksonville's citizens, provided with a direct participation in their government, have more faith in that government as an institution.

The Corporation for Public Broadcasting conducted an exhaustive survey of Jacksonville's viewers. Among its findings: Viewers of governmental proceedings over WJCT were much less likely to feel alienated from their government than those who did not view government in action.

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The same report found that, with a large group identified as neighborhood leaders, the coverage was credited as the single greatest source of information about their local government-greater than the newspapers and the other three television stations in the community combined. A substantial majority, 65 percent of the sample, told the researchers they believed the WJCT coverage has influenced local government and police agencies, too. This suggests that television's coverage can actually aid the process of government.

Ninety-four percent of these neighborhood leaders, 94 percent said such coverage was an important check on local government.

The experiment has existed on a statewide basis for 1 year. Already evidence is growing that similar patterns are being felt statewide.

The Corporation for Public Broadcasting conducted a separate survey of the effects of legislative coverage. One finding: that 67 percent of regular viewers feel the coverage increased their understanding of the legislative process.

The same survey measured the attitudes of legislators.

Ninety-three percent of those responding told researchers the cameras had not bothered them. The survey points out that 80 percent detected no difference in their conduct on the floor.

Clearly, the evidence at this point indicates that bringing government to the people is not disruptive to government; it may actually aid that government in carrying out its duties.

What are the essential elements of this communications system which brings government to the people?

First, a philosophy of what that communications system should accomplish. WJCT's philosophy does not involve a public relations job for government. We are providing citizens with what they need to participate in the American decisionmaking process-an electronic townhall. We are enabling 7.2 million people to work on our State's problems along with our 160 elected legislators.

Second, we avoid the tendency to view this sort of communication as a TV show. True, sometimes it's highly entertaining in a conventional sense and that's fine-but it shouldn't be produced as a TV special. Both the equipment and people chosen for this job must be with communication in mind-not show biz or even traditional journalism.

Third, if a lawmaking body is to open its doors to direct communications with the public, it must open all the doors. Citizens are growing more sophisticated-both about their government, and about the media. If they are offered access only to shows by politicians and not all of the details of the governmental process-the citizens will catch on quickly. Rather than building confidence in governmental institutions, we can expect further distrust, alienation, and resentment.

In Jacksonville we even televise the final interviews for key government jobs, such as the school superintendent applicants-this resulted in nationwide headlines recently, but to us-it's just the people's business.

The public cannot help but compare the Congress with their more open State and local governments.

After years of experimentation, we can now ignore the bogeymen. We can ignore all those reasons for not televising governmental proceedings 10 years of fact and results can lay them to rest.

Bogeyman No. 1 says the public will be bored by government on TV. Ratings in Florida for "Today in the Legislature" were higher than some network talk shows. But, if we just get 10 or 20 percent we believe these hundreds of thousands are those who are registered voters and the group who gets things done in our State.

House Rules Committee Chairman Murray Dubbin watched the coverage of his house in 1973. That argument. he says, proved empty. Summary: Dubbin savs he never heard the argument before. In his experience, it isn't true. Quite the opposite.