Mr. BRADLEY. Well, there is no simple answer to that because the marginal mine in the first place has got to be a big mine in order to give you any production that will be of any significance to the economy or to our wartime needs, so then you are not dealing with the prospector any more. You have got to deal with some agency, private or whatever, that will go in there and dig that thing in real quantity, and you are up against a different proposition than the little miner.

Mr. REGAN. Well you can't offer that miner an across-the-board price and make some that have high-grade minerals take big risks, and still not give him enough that he can operate the mine at a profit?

Mr. BRADLEY. That is correct. That is why we can give an acrossthe-board price in the case of tungsten but we can't give an acrossthe-board high price in the case of copper because the volumes to be produced from any typical deposit is an entirely different thing.

Mr. REGAN. Isn't there an answer to this thing, that several of our members and people are interested in having accomplished here, and isn't it to have some incentive to bring back those marginal mines into successful operation and encourage the small miners to further exploration work?

Mr. BRADLEY. We have the exploration program that is under way that should encourage the small fellow to go out and do a lot more looking.

Mr. REGAN. Suppose we have a miner that knows where he can find a little chrome, copper, or tungsten, but you can't do it at the prevailing price. It seems to me the only answer is a premium price.

Mr. BRADLEY. Applied with some caution, perhaps. We hope that we can, by districts, in the case of manganese particularly, tungsten you know across-the-board, manganese, I think we can set up a price for each district, because that is the way manganese comes. The districts are readily identifiable, chrome the same way. I think we should try this $115 price at Grants Pass, and see how it works and if it works, and as our knowledge increases about how it works and as our knowledge increases about outlying or other districts we can apply it to the other districts, the same sort of program with perhaps another price. Mr. REGAN. It looks as though in order to do anything in California we will have to have some different type of arrangement.

Mr. BRADLEY. I think so. It is a different ore and slightly different circumstances than Grants Pass ore. We can only do certain things at once. We progress as fast as we can but by steps.

Mr. REGAN. It looks like we have 88 things to do at once in the short time left to get this program under way.

CHROME PROGRAM APPLICABLE ONLY TO GRANTS PASS AREA

Mr. ENGLE. Is there anything in this program which you have in mind which would prevent the participation of the northern California ores if a concentrating process could be found which would enable that ore to be produced, that grade, at the $115 price? Mr. BRADLEY. I didn't follow that.

Mr. ENGLE. I want to know if you are going to apply this just to the Oregon area? Are you going to limit it geographically? Mr. BRADLEY. I think that would be a feasible thing.

Mr. ENGLE. What if somebody down around northern California wanted to ship to Grants Pass stockpile. Could they do it?

Mr. BRADLEY. Well the Grants Pass stockpile is paying a certain price. If they think they can ship up for the present, all right.

I wanted to point out with all of these blanketing programs, the DMA can still execute any individual contract, which it will do in the case of any mine where the production would be significant, or where it is worthwhile to execute a special contract to overcome special conditions.

Mr. ENGLE. In other words, this program is without prejudice to specially negotiated contracts?

Mr. BRADLEY. That is right.

Mr. ENGLE. Even above this price?

Mr. BRADLEY. Above that price. The same as tungsten.

wasn't brought out, but that is true in the case of tungsten.

That

Mr. D'EWART. Do I understand clearly, Mr. Bradley, that this program is applicable only to the Grant's Pass area? It does not apply to the chromium deposits in southern Montana?

Mr. BRADLEY. That is correct. We haven't worked out any program for those deposits.

Mr. SAYLOR. You worked out no program for the Maryland-Pennsylvania State line deposits?

Mr. BRADLEY. No.

Mr. ENGLE. Mr. Lyon, what is your time schedule on this program? Mr. LYON. The time schedule limited by human endurance. We all get there about 8 o'clock in the morning and we leave there half past 6 to 7 at night.

Mr. ENGLE. When do you anticipate you will get this chrome program into execution?

Mr. LYON. It is over at DPA now and it should be certified in a short time to GSA, and it goes ahead.

Mr. ENGLE. GSA will have to wrestle around and get some money, wont they?

Mr. LYON. Yes. They have to set up the purchase depot and take care of all the business.

Mr. ENGLE. I suspect there will be some time elapse on that? Mr. SAYLOR. Mr. Bradley, I would like to know why the price doesn't apply to the Maryland-Pennsylvania State line deposits because in hearings that were held by this subcommittee during the Eightieth Congress, it was testified that the Maryland-Pennsylvania State line district, though few people know it, contains the largest high-grade chromium deposits known anywhere in the United States. Mr. BRADLEY. Was that testified to by a reputable man?

Mr. SAYLOR. It was testified to by Mr. Thayer, from the United States Geological Survey.

Mr. BRADLEY. He is a good man.

Mr. SAYLOR. It might be of interest to you to know or to get those hearings and find out where the USGS claims the largest chrome deposits in the United States are.

Mr. BRADLEY. I use that thing as a bible.

Mr. SAYLOR. You had better memorize the bible. I know a lot of people that believe in it that don't know it too well.

Mr. BRADLEY. We have had no applications from that area at all, no indications of any private interests.

Mr. SAYLOR. But if you offer an attractive incentive, with the price right, people would go out and prospect, if they are the greatest, known deposits in the United States; will you have somebody interested in it?

Mr. BRADLEY. Those things have to build up. We have to take some initiative. We can't take it all.

Mr. SAYLOR. If we have an all-out war, it will take somebody to have some initiative.

Mr. REGAN. Are there any further questions?

Mr. BARING. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. DONOVAN. You don't know of any extraordinary mineral deposits under the sidewalks of the City of New York, do you? Mr. BRADLEY. There has been no indication of that.

Mr. REGAN. Mr. Baring wanted to ask Mr. Hofflund a question..

FIELD HEARINGS INDICATED DESIRE RY MARGINAL MINERS
FOR PREMIUM PRICE PLAN

Mr. BARING. For the record, Mr. Hofflund accompanied me on my Ely, Nev., and Phoenix, Ariz., hearings, which were attended by probably some 500 small and marginal miners. Dr. Boyd said here the other day that it was his opinion that the mining industry did not favor a premium price plan. Mr. Hofflund, during the interviews in the two cities, Ely, Nev., and Phoenix, Ariz., would it be correct to say that 90 percent of the men in the field are in favor of a premium price plan?

Mr. HOFFLUND. I would say 90 percent of the people present indicated their approval of the Baring bill that was then mentioned. Mr. BARING. Thank you.

Mr. REGAN. And the Baring bill provided a price plan a premium price plan?

Mr. BARING. Yes, sir. It was taken after the Engle bill of last. year.

Mr. REGAN. Are there any further questions?

PROPOSED MANGANESE PROGRAM

Mr. SAYLOR. I would like to know what hope there is for a program for manganese in this country, from these men.

Mr. LYON. There should be one. We have a number of projects in mind, and there should be a manganese program over at the DPA within a few days. These projects will all be ready to go at that time, and there is one in Montana, in the Phillipsburg district, for the production of high-grade manganese. There is a depot at Deming, N. Mex., a purchase depot and sampling mill. There is a recomendation for a mill at El Paso, Tex., for the treatment of southern ores and Mexican ores, and the Artillery Peak, and Three Kids, which was authorized and going ahead before the DMA got into the picture.

Mr. REGAN. Mr. Lyon, that El Paso installation is just to handle manganese?

Mr. LYON. Yes, sir.

Mr. REGAN. Only manganese?

Mr. LYON. Yes, sir.

82354-52-26

Mr. REGAN. I am glad you are installing it there. I believe it will be fruitful.

Mr. SAYLOR. What price per unit is being proposed?

Mr. LYON. It hasn't been decided yet. It will be something— we haven't decided on the price it is going to take to bring manganese out. We have a man down there now to try to ascertain that price.

Mr. SAYLOR. If you sent something over to DPA, you certainly recommended something along the line, or some price.

Mr. LYON. We recommended certain things, but those things haven't reached the DPA yet, the mill and the purchase depot and all the rest of it.

Mr. ENGLE. Does that have to go up through the higher echelon, kitchen cabinet, and the Secretary's office?

Mr. LYON. Some time.

Mr. SAYLOR. This hasn't even gotten to the totem pole stage yet, not only the low man. This isn't in the foundation stage. Mr. DONOVAN. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. SAYLOR. I do.

DOMESTIC MANGANESE PRODUCTION

Mr. DONOVAN. You are producing manganese here in this country now, aren't you?

Mr. LYON. About 5 percent of the demand.

Mr. DONOVAN. Is the domestic price different than the foreign price?

Mr. BRADLEY. No.

Mr. LYON. I can't tell you.

Mr. DONOVAN. Is anybody here who can?

Mr. PARSONS. There is no domestic market because none is being sold.

Mr. DONOVAN. You are getting no manganese at all except that 5 percent you are talking about domestically?

Mr. PARSONS. That is right.

Mr. BRADLEY. We are getting about a hundred thousand tons a year from one deposit in the United States.

Mr. DONOVAN. That amounts to about 5 percent of what you need? Mr. BRADLEY. It is about 5 percent.

Mr. DONOVAN. You need more in case of an all-out shooting war! Mr. BRADLEY. In case of all-out war, we need lots more. Chrome and manganese are both in the same fix. There is almost enough coming in.

FOREIGN SOURCES OF MANGANESE

Mr. DONOVAN. Where do you get it from outside of the country? What are the foreign sources of supply?

Mr. BRADLEY. Russia has been

Mr. DONOVAN. You and I know that that has been out since 1947. Mr. BRADLEY. No. It began to dwindle in 1949, and there is still some manganese coming in. There is still some chrome coming in from Russia, too.

Mr. DONOVAN. I am talking about manganese. Never mind the chrome. How much manganese is coming from Russia?

Mr. BRADLEY. I don't know the total quantity; possibly a dozen boatloads, something like that.

Mr. DONOVAN. Does that come directly from Russia or from some of our friends over on the continent who are able to do business with Russia?

Mr. BRADLEY. I think it is loaded directly out of Russia. I can't say for the year 1951.

Mr. DONOVAN. What portion of our domestic supply, or our supply here in the United States, to best of your knowledge-give us an idea-comes from Russia at the present time?

Mr. BRADLEY. Not over 5 percent, hardly that. Just a few percent. Not any more than we produce in this country.

Mr. DONOVAN. It follows as a matter of course in case of hostilities that supply would be shut off.

Mr. BRADLEY. That is right.

Mr. DONOVAN. Where does the rest of it come from?

Mr. BRADLEY. Most of it comes from India.

Mr. DONOVAN. What section of India?

Mr. BRADLEY. It feeds in through the port of Vizagapatam, which is, as I understand it, on the east coast.

Mr. DONOVAN. On the east coast?

Mr. BRADLEY. I am not sure of that.

Mr. DONOVAN. On the east coast of India?

Mr. BRADLEY. I think so.

Mr. DONOVAN. Give me the name of that port again.

Mr. BRADLEY. Vizagapatam.

Mr. DONOVAN. How much does that amount to percentagewise? Mr. BRADLEY. That is at least half of our imports.

Mr. BENNETT. Is that the same part of India that wants the wheat from us?

Mr. SAYLOR. Yes.

Mr. BRADLEY. I don't know.

Mr. REGAN. You say half our imports; in other words, 472 percent comes from India?

Mr. BRADLEY. I wouldn't be that precise.

Mr. DONOVAN. Where does the other 40 percent come from?

Mr. BRADLEY. Some picked up in Africa.

Mr. DONOVAN. How much percentagewise?

Mr. BRADLEY. I will have to guess.

Mr. DONOVAN. That is all right.

Mr. BRADLEY. Maybe a quarter of our needs; something in that magnitude.

Mr. DONOVAN. That would be 25 percent?

Mr. BRADLEY. Something in that magnitude.

Mr. DONOVAN. Where does the balance come from?

Mr. BRADLEY. Here and there. There will be a good deal coming from South America in the next 3 or 4 years; not so much now. I think 10 or 15 percent from South America now.

Mr. DONOVAN. So that if India were cut off and Russia were cut off, we would be reduced to what we could get out of Africa and what we could get in the next 4 or 5 years or within 5 years from Brazil or South America; is that right?

Mr. BRADLEY. Plus a certain amount that will be forthcoming in this country as these programs get under way.