Southern cotton mills.

Number of mills (July 1, 1915).

Capital stock___.

Number of spindles..

Number of looms

Consume bales of cotton

Output valued at

Number of employees (approximately).

Number of children under 16 years_.

Number under 14 years___

Number of employees according to 1910 census.

143,000 If you take the dependents into consideration it will amount to about 400,000 people. That is about all the information that I wanted to file with the committee.

Mr. KEATING. Have you any figures showing the wages paid to various employees in the South 10 years ago?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir; that is in the table which I have put in.

Mr. KEATING. Can you make a comparison between the wages paid at that time and the wages paid to-day?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir; the table gives that information.

Mr. KEATING. How much of an increase will be shown?

Mr. CLARK. There is a considerable increase; probably 25 per More than that, I guess.

cent.

Mr. KEATING. In some cases it amounts to almost 100 per cent does it not?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Mr. ALMON. To what cause do you attribute this increase?

Mr. CLARK. To the natural growth of the mills. The increase in wages has taken place all through the country. I do not know of any place where wages have not increased in the last 10 years. I also call your attention to this fact, that there has been no concerted action, as I said a while ago, no organization among the operatives while this increase has gone into effect.

Mr. KEATING. The point I was trying to make was whether 10 years ago, when this agitation began, there was any justification for the agitation to better the conditions of the child workers of the South. You have submitted some figures here showing that within the last 10 years there has been an increase in the salaries of doffers. As I understand, boys are doffers?

Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.

Mr. KEATING. Practically 300 per cent.

Mr. CLARK. There has been a remarkable increase in wages.

Mr. KEATING. So there has been a more marked increase or improvement in conditions in the South during the 10 years during which the National Child Labor Committee has carried on its agitation?

Mr. CLARK. There is no question about that, but there is no connection between the two.

Mr. KEATING. There is a difference of opinion on that.
Mr. CLARK. I grant you that-among a few people.

Mr. NOLAN. Mr. Clark, you have made statements here that conditions generally regarding the age of children or hours of labor, sanitation, and practices in the South in the mills have improved considerably in that time?

Mr. CLARK. I say there is no question about there having been an improvement in their condition, a remarkable improvement in the sanitation, and so on.

Mr. NOLAN. So whether it is due to Dr. McKelway and the National Child Labor Committee or not, the conditions prevailing there at that time have improved to some extent since that time. Is that a fact?

Mr. CLARK. Oh, yes, sir.

Mr. ALMON. State whether or not conditions have improved in other businesses, in other industrial plants, as well as the cotton mills all over the South.

Mr. CLARK. That is true; yes, sir. The South was a different proposition in 1900.

Mr. ALMON. In point of character of labor, in point of wages, and also in point of health and sanitation, has it been confined to the cotton-mill business?

Mr. CLARK. No; but it has been more marked in the cotton-mill business. In the furniture industry in High Point, N. C., there has been a great increase.

Mr. KEATING. These figures were not taken in the last three months, were they?

Mr. CLARK. No, sir.

Mr. KEATING. So these are not abnormal figures? These are figures for 1914?

Mr. CLARK. These are figures I filed last May before the Committee on Industrial Relations. There is another point. There was a greater increase from 1894 to 1904, when Dr. McKelway was running a paper down there, and employed women himself.

Mr. KEATING. When the 1904 conditions prevailed, and the National Child Labor Committee began its agitation, then the mill owners of the South admitted that conditions were bad, and should be improved?

Mr. CLARK. Oh, yes; they have always admitted there could be improvement. They have gone after improvement.

Mr. KEATING. Have they appeared before the Legislature of North Carolina, or any other State, and asked for legislation to improve conditions?

Mr. CLARK. The South Carolina millmen appeared before it in 1908, and again in 1914, and asked them to give them compulsory education.

Mr. NOLAN. Now, Mr. Clark, this bill is general in its nature, and it is aimed at all industries in every State in the Union, is it not? Mr. CLARK. I can not say that. I think it is aimed at the cotton manufacturers in the South.

Mr. NOLAN. How do you account for the fact that a large number of the largest States in the Union have seen fit to legislate, providing for a radical change in conditions, during the prior we are speaking about, from 1904 to 1914?

Mr. CLARK. Different States have had different reasons for different changes. I do not know.

Mr. NOLAN. There is a general tendency, you will admit, throughout this country, to improve conditions under which children work? Mr. CLARK. There is no question about that.

Mr. NOLAN. There is a general tendency throughout this country! to see that children under a certain age are permitted to go to school up to a particular time, so that this bill is not directly aimed at the cotton industries of the South?

Mr. CLARK. Well, there is a difference of opinion on that, as to whether it is or not. I consider it is aimed alone at the cotton mills. Mr. NOLAN. Do you not know that there is a great agitation throughout this country for this sort of legislation?

Mr. CLARK. For a great deal of change; yes.

Mr. NOLAN. Then it is not a fact that this bill is directly aimed at the cotton-mill interests of the South, and that they alone are the ones that will have to live up to the law.

Mr. CLARK. If the other States have gone ahead and made these changes, what is the necessity for the law?

Mr. NOLAN. Some of the States have done so, but there are a number of States that have not. That is one reason why I say it is not directed at the States of the South. The North is not entirely free. You understand that.

Mr. CLARK. Taking into consideration the fact that in a great many of the States the children are employed, particularly in the canning industries

Mr. NOLAN. This will cover the canneries, will it not?

Mr. CLARK. I think it does.

Mr. NOLAN. You have made the statement that this bill was directed at the cotton industries of the South. It will affect other industries than the cotton industry, will it not?

Mr. CLARK. In these States you have already got it; they do not carry it out.

Mr. NOLAN. In the canning industries?

Mr. CLARK. In the canning industries, where you have got it, in Maryland and California, you have children employed now. Mr. NOLAN. It is not enforced in Maryland?

Mr. CLARK. You have a law there, and one of your inspectors testified it was not enforced.

Mr. NOLAN. This bill will not alone affect the canneries, but mines. quarries, and mills?

Mr. CLARK. Not farms.

Mr. NOLAN. And general industry?

Mr. CLARK. Why not farms?

Mr. NOLAN. I am not taking the exception, but I am taking the general rule. I want to get that point straightened out, to my satisfaction at least. This bill is not directly aimed at the cottom-mill industry of the South, as you stated?

Mr. CLARK. Well, it can not be aimed at the States that already have it when those States that already have it have practically the same laws.

Mr. NOLAN. It is not claimed that all States outside of the cottonmill States have this law?

Mr. CLARK. It affects very few outside of the southern State. Mr. NOLAN. Of course that can be proved to the satisfaction of the committee by testimony.

Mr. CLARK. I have the laws compiled of each State. I think it affects very few outside of the cotton industries. I do not think there

is any question that this is aimed at the cotton industry of the South.

Mr. KEATING. You believe that children are employed now in the canneries in violation of this law?

Mr. CLARK. I do; certainly. It was so testified at the National Child Labor Conference last year by an inspector from Maryland. Mr. KEATING. If this law was enacted, you believe the Department of Labor would enforce the laws against the canneries as well as the cotton mills?

Mr. CLARK. I think they would be treated as equal.

Mr. KEATING. So it would affect the canneries as well as the cotton manufacturers?

Mr. CLARK. You have those laws there.

Mr. KEATING. It is not enforced. What is the use of having the law unless it is enforced? The law does not affect the canneries unless it is enforced.

Mr. CLARK. I do not know.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN (Mr. Watson). Mr. Clark, are you through? Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir. I will be glad to answer any questions. (The witness was thereupon excused.)

Mr. NOLAN. Mr. Chairman, it is going on to 12 o'clock, and there are quite a number of people interested in this measure who want to be heard, and the intention of the committee was to decide after two hours what they would do. I move that the chairman be authorized to ask the privilege of the House to sit during sessions. I think we ought to go along this afternoon and conduct these hearings. (The motion was agreed to.)

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I think it must be obvious to all the members of the committee, however interesting the conversations with the gentlement who make the statements may be, that unless we proceed with something like system we are not going to get along. It is plain to my mind that if the members of the committee would take the gentleman in the chair by turn and ask any questions that may be suggested by any remark which the gentleman in the chair has made, we will accomplish more toward getting through and our sessions will not be so protracted. The only thing that occurred to me in the beginning of the hearing to-day was that if the gentlemen who wanted to submit views were instructed to get through and subinit them in their own way first, and then, after they concluded their statements, have any member of the committee who wanted to ask any questions he wanted, that perhaps that might save time. Now, then, gentlemen, do I understand that you all authorize me to keep the gentleman who makes a statement from being interrupted by anybody on the committee until he gets through with his statement? If we will do that, I think we can get along better.

Mr. SUMNERS. Has the Chair ascertained from these gentlemen whether or not they have gotten together and selected certain gentlemen from their number to present the matter primarily?

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. I was relying upon Gov. Kitchin to present these gentlemen in whatever order he wanted to. Is that so, Governor?

Mr. KITCHIN. Yes, sir.

STATEMENT OF MR. W. M. SHERARD, SUPERINTENDENT WIL LIAMSTON MILLS, WILLIAMSTON, S. C

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state your name, residence, and occupation?

Mr. SHERARD. I am here, Mr. Chairman, to represent the laborer and also the Southern Textile Association, which is composed of laboring men in the textile industry. We wish to be put on the same footing as all other trades and vocations. We feel that this specia. bill would discriminate against us, because of the fact that our neighbors right across the street are allowed to work any number of hours on the premises where they work. In fact, I have a number of people living in our mill village there whose children are too young, or under 12 years of age for that matter, which is our age limit in South Carolina, and they are permitted to work in any other vocation they want to pursue any number of hours. All that we want to do is this: We feel that this law would be injurious to the operatives of the mill; ten times more so than to the milling interests themselves. So far as the mill is concerned, it would prove temporarily a slight handicap in making the change, but so far as we are concerned that would be a very immaterial change.

Take, for instance, a widow woman, who has two children, we will say, under 14 years of age, but of legal age, as we now employ them. between 12 and 14. These children can easily make $1 a day each. There are $2 a day for the subsistence of that family. If they are deprived of their work, what are they going to do? What other vocation in life can they follow to make the same wage?

Another thing. The most of us in the mills come from the rural districts. Quite a large number in our section of the country come from the mounds district, come from little hovels and log huts up there, where we have had absolutely no advantages at all. They have come to the mills, where they have every advantage, from the rural districts. The mills have provided excellent homes, good houses. well painted, and a large number of them have sewerage, waterworks, and electric lights, and a number of them are without that equipment, but they are good homes, good comfortable homes, have nice gardens, are sanitary, and are all that could be asked.

Most of the mills, and I can speak authoritatively, in South Carolina, and quite a large number that I know of in North Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama, all that I know of my own knowledge, and others that I can speak of through the knowledge of others, have built large houses for Y. M. C. A's. and Y. W. C. A's.

We have at our mill there now a lady, and I can also speak of several of these gentlemen that I know here that have ladies employed, to look after the welfare work of the village, that is paid for by the mill. She instructs the people about sanitation, about cooking, about sewing, and anything that comes within her line of work.

We have schools, we have a splendidly equipped school, and all of the mills that I know anything about have good schools, and the schools have, relatively speaking, made a great deal more progress in the mills than they have in the rural districts.

They have better sanitation in the homes, too.