페이지 이미지
PDF
ePub

Mr. RAND. Dr. Wirt is one of the leading citizens of Gary and the father of the public school system of Gary, which is internationally known.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Now, who was the group of men Dr. Wirt was talking to, who was it that he was talking to, that was formulating legislation? Mr. Rand. They were attempting to. Mr. BULWINKLE. Who were they? I am trying to find that out.

Mr. RAND (continuing). Prepare legislation, and preparing a program in advance.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Well, who were they?
Mr. RAND. May I read you this statement?
Mr. BULWINKLE. Yes; but I want the names first.

Mr. Rand. I will read from a statement, which was prepared by William A. Wirt.

Mr. BULWINKLE. We have got his name. I want the names of the men he was talking to.

Mr. RAND. May I read his statement?

Mr. BULWINKLE. No, sir; I want the names first of the group of men.

Mr. RAND. Yes.
Mr. BULWINKLE. That he was talking to, from Washington.
Mr. RAND. I will see if he gives the names in here.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Well now, you do not mean to tell me that you are coming before a committee of Congress, testifying in behalf of or against a bill, and that the information you are giving to this committee is that somebody in Indiana said that there was a group of men from Washington out there formulating plans to "crack down" on business, and you cannot give the names of the men?

Mr. Rand. I gave the name of the man who supplied the information.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Well, I am not asking for that.

Mr. Rand. And I suggest that you call him, and ask him for the names, because I find here that he refers to them as the "brain trusters.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Well now, who are those “brain trusters" that were in Indiana?

Mr. RAND. I would like very much to read you from the statement.

Mr. BULWINKLE. I do not care to hear about his statement. I want the names of those that he was talking to or about.

Mr. RAND. Dr. Wirt could give you them.

Mr. BULWINKLE. I am not hearing Dr. Wirt. I am just in the same position the chairman is about this proposition. You come before this committee as a witness to try to enlighten the committee on the provisions of this bill, and you enter into a tirade as to what somebody said to someone else in Gary, Ind., that they are going to "crack down” on business.

Mr. Rand. These men were not in Indiana. He said last summer I asked him if the individuals, this group, what their concrete plan was to bring on something that would overthrow the American social order

Mr. BULWINKLE. First, I want to hear who they are. I do not want to hear you, unless Dr. Wirt, who wrote to you an important message like that, could give you the names of these conspirators.

Mr, RAND. “Brain trusters."
Mr. BULWINKLE. Conspirators.
Now, go ahead and read it, then.
Mr. Rand (reading).

Last summer I asked some of the individuals in this group what their concrete plan was for bringing on the proposed overthrow of the established American social order.

I was told that they believed that by thwarting our then evident recovery they would be able to prolong the country's destitution until they had demonstrated to the American people that the Government must operate industry and commerce. I was told that the Government must operate industry and commerce. I was told that, of course, commercial banks could not make longtime capital loans and that they would be able to destroy, by propaganda, the other institutions that had been making our capital loans. Then we can push Uncle Sam into the position where he must make these capital loans. And of course when Uncle Sam becomes our financier he must also follow his money with control and management.

I am quoting from his statement.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, you have laid this on the so-called "brain trusters."

Are you here before this committee to make that direct charge, or by inference, either, that President Roosevelt has called around him and is seeking the advice of men who intend

to overthrow this Government? You have called attention to this man's statement, and you put it in your statement as a part of your argument. Do you mean, even by implication, to leave that kind of an inference?

Mr. Rand. I would like to have you listen to the statement, Mr. Chairman, and call Dr. Wirt.

The CHAIRMAN. We are not going to call Dr. Wirt.
Mr. Rand (interposing). This is what he says.
The CHAIRMAN (continuing). We have not called anybody.

Mr. RAND. This is a statement which bears upon the intention of certain individuals, and I am not saying

The CHAIRMAN. "That is not material. I think that I can state for the full committee that we do not care to hear it.

Mr. MALONEY of Connecticut. Mr. Chairman may I ask a question? The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Maloney.

Mr. MALONEY of Connecticut. Did you tell us that you were representing the committee for the nation, or are you speaking on your own responsibility?

Mr. RAND. I am down here representing the committee for the Nation, who have engaged the National Conference Board to make a study of this thing, and we have not had enough days in which to complete the analysis and make our final recommendations on the bill.

I have, however, the recommendations which are in generalities, which we subscribe to and which I would like to lay before the committee.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Let me get you. Do you approve any regulation of the stock exchanges?

Mr. RAND. Yes, sir.
Mr. BULWINKLE. How far would you go?
Mr. Rand. That is a broad question.
Mr. BULWINKLE. Well, what have you in your mind?
Mr. RAND. The legislation which I would like to see enacted-

45381-34-49

Mr. BULWINKLE. I want you, if you can, just to tell me offhand, because you came down here prepared to go before this committee.

Mr. RAND (interposing). In the first place, I would like to see the Federal regulatory authority established, set up for this purpose, because this is only one factor in the control of margins, in effecting the expansion or contraction of credit, or cash, in the country.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Now, we have got that much. You want a commission established for that purpose?

Mr. Rand. Yes; that is right.
Mr. BULWINKLE. And we are able to go that far together.

Mr. Rand. The cash and its equivalent in this country, which represents our business activities, and our prosperity or adversity, to such large extent, consists of $100,000,000,000 of securities, about $36,000,000,000 of bank deposits and about five and a half or six billion dollars cash.

Those three elements should be under one centralized control, in our opinion.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Well, all right

Mr. RAND. Now, the regulation of stock exchanges, investment houses, is a very important lever of control in the expansion or contraction of credit, cash, and its equivalent, and therefore if Congress is going to carry out the dictates of the Constitution to regulate the money of this country, and the value thereof, it must have a regulatory authority responsible to Congress.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Now, we have got to the point where we have got to have a regulatory authority. We want to know now what you are going to do about it after you get it.

Mr. Rand. This regulatory authority?
Mr. BULWINKLE. What will you do about it?

Mr. Rand. First, to regulate, first to limit the amount of loans by banks, operating on Federal and State laws, and, second, they should be limited in the percentage of loans to the market value of the collateral, by classes of securities.

The members of the group of business men that are called the “Business Advisory and Planning Council of the Department of Commerce" felt very strongly about this

Mr. BULWINKLE (interposing). Just a minute.

Mr. RAND (continuing). And, we concur in that recommendation, that it should not be less than

Mr. BULWINKLE. Just a minute. Let me ask you questions, and see if I can get answers to them, and I think that we will get along a little bit faster than we do this way.

Now, what is the difference between your plan and the plan proposed under the Rayburn bill?

Mr. RAND. That plan would fix the margins at not less than 30 percent of the debit balance of the customer and the security given as collateral should not be taken as for marginal purposes at more than 70 percent of the market value, and then there is a change, and this is on the basis of value, and value is the most important thing; that no commission should be allowed to change or no regulatory body should be allowed to change a margin requirement suddenly, and shockingly, by a change of more than 3 percent in any one month, and then only after 30 days advance notice in writing.

Mr. BULWINKLE. So, we have got to this point, that you and the brain trusters agree upon regulation together.

[ocr errors][ocr errors]

Mr. RAND. I said in the beginning, that I believe in certain regulation, that certain regulation should be applied.

Mr. BULWINKLE. All right, let me ask you this.
Mr. LEA. Mr. Chairman-
Mr. Rand. Might I continue and answer that question, and then-

Mr. LEA. I would like to go back to that statement by Professor Wirt. You have quoted Professor Wirt in a way that reflects upon the members of the so-called “brain trust” whose names are undis-. closed, in a shocking statement attributed to those men; if true, the statements are damnable, and traitorous. This committee should not be put in a position of cutting off a full disclosure of that statement by Professor Wirt. The full matter should be disclosed and investis gated, in my judgment.

So, I suggest that the witness be requested to complete reading the communication from Dr. Wirt.

The Chairman. That is agreeable to me.
Mr. Rand. I will say,
Mr. MAPES. Mr. Chairman-
The CHAIRMAN. You want that information?

Mr. MAPES. Mr. Rand, in view of your criticism of the “brain trust”, I wonder if you and the other members of the committee for the Nation now have any compunction of conscience for having aided and abetted the “brain trust" in its monetary program.

Mr. Rand. The monetary program, I believe, has been opposed by many of the members of the brain trust”, for this reason, that once you correct the monetary problem of this country, you will have a revival of business and employment and no opportunity to regiment. Your regimentation is ended, and they know it, and the moment that you provide adequate currency and credit for the circulation of goods and merchandise, and service in this country

Mr. Monaghan. Mr. Chairman, he is certainly diverting from the issues of the bill; but since he has, I would like to ask a question. What do you consider adequate credit, Mr. Rand?

Mr. RAND. I consider
Mr. MONAGHAN. And adequate currency, and credit?

Mr. RAND. I consider, and the members of our group who have put a long time on studying this thing consider that if we are going to return to the conditions that existed in 1926 which were conditions which we thought were happy conditions, where we had no complaints about unemployment, and we had no poverty, and we had no inability to distribute the wealth of goods in 1926 we had in this country a total of $62,000,000,000 of bank deposits. That was our real money. Those bank deposits were backed 90 percent by pieces of paper which I might call I.O.U.'s. Those I.O.U.'s were promises to pay and currency is no better than promises to pay, because there was only 10 cents cash for every dollar of that kind of cash and there was $52,000,000,000 of that currency in 1926.

Now, we had at that time, in money, in circulation, about $5,000,000,000, about the same as we have today—a little less—than in we had in securities, total securities

Mr. HUDDLESTON. Mr. Monaghan, do you want him to discuss that subject?

Mr. MONAGHAN. I merely wanted to know, if possible, in a sentence. Mr. HUDDLESTON. I am tired of these digressions. We are not getting anywhere on this particular bill. We are getting nowhere, and I have gotten nothing whatever from what the witness has said. I would like to bring it to an end some way.

I have stood it about as long as I can.

Mr. Rand. I am answering the questions as they are put.
Mr. HUDDLESTON. You are making insinuations and assertions.
Mr. RAND. I am answering the questions the best I can.
Mr. HUDDLESTON. And they are of no value whatever.
Mr. COOPER. Mr. Chairman-
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Cooper.

Mr. Cooper. I have no objection to the letter from Dr. Wirt being read and being put in the record; but I know that the chairman and the members of this committee have worked hard now for 3 or 4 weeks to try to come to some definite understanding in regard to this legislation which we are considering. I know how hard the chairman has worked on this.

Now, I thought that we were calling these hearings here for the last 2 or 3 days to try and get some expression on the part of the witnesses that came here regarding the legislation we are considering. I am wondering if the gentleman cannot tell us what he thinks about this bill that we have before us, and give some information instead of getting off of the track, as Mr. Huddleston has said, on other questions. I do not think that that has any bearing on this legislation which we are considering at the present time.

Mr. MONAGHAN. Mr. Chairman, since I asked the question, I want to suggest that he has not answered the question which I asked before about what his objections were to section 12 which he said should be stricken out of the bill. That has not been answered.

Mr. BULWINKLE. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Lea wants the letter read. I am perfectly willing for it to be put in the record.

Mr. Rand. I will put it in the record if you wish, without taking time to read it, because you will have copies of it.

Mr. LEA. I will ask that you read the letter. That letter involves a question of the integrity of Government. The charge is too serious to be ignored, and I think, due to the committee to have a full disclosure made of whatever the letter contains. I will ask the witness to proceed and read the letter.

Mr. RAND. I will file the letter, or I will read it if you think it should be read. I am reading it because it is a document which comes from such a well-known citizen, and before presenting it here, I took the trouble to call him on the telephone this morning and asked if I might have his permission to read the letter.

The CHAIRMAN. Begin where you quit, and read the remainder of the letter.

Mr. RAND. Do you want me to read the letter?

Mr. PETTENGILL. Dr. Wirt is a leading educator, in the public school system in Indiana. Outside of that, I know nothing about his statement.

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.
Mr. RAND (reading):

« 이전계속 »