Mr. HICKS. Let us have the totals.

Capt. CRAVEN. The total number is 1,316.

Mr. HICKS. How many of those can you utilize to advantage?

Capt. CRAVEN. During the coming year we will perhaps use 300 or 400; the rest will remain in store or will be sold as opportunity offers.

Mr. HICKS. And the only extra cost is putting them in commission? Capt. CRAVEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. HICKS. And that is quite a material item, you say?

Capt. CRAVEN. Yes; depending on the size of the plane and the conditions in which it has been stored.

Mr. HICKS. The cost of putting them in commission, is that included under this item that you have here for going over planes, and so forth?

Capt. CRAVEN. Yes.

Mr. HICKS. That is the main cost of that big item?

Capt. CRAVEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. HICKS. How many motors are there on hand not in use? Last year it was 6,000, as I recall, although I think possibly an error was made.

The CHAIRMAN. Do some of you gentlemen know how many Liberty motors there are? They are worth a good many thousand dollars, each of them?

Capt. CRAVEN. We shall have to ask the indulgence of the committee and include that later on.

(Following is a table giving the motors on hand:)

AVIATION ENGINES ON HAND JAN. 1, 1921. UNDER COGNIZANCE OF BURFAU OF S. AND E.

Of which 103 are for experimental purposes and 1,201 are available for sale. NOTE. The bureau's records show that on January 1, 1921, there were approximately 700 Liberty engines and 103 Hispano-Suiza engines in storage and at the air stations in need of overhaul. Approximately 300 Liberty engines in storage at the naval air stations unfit for further service will be surveyed. At the present time there are in storage at the naval aircraft factory, Philadelphia, Pa., 596 new and 427 overhauled Liberty engines, or a total of 1,023. One hundred of these engines will be required for the 100 HS-2 flying boats recently sold to the Aeromarine Plane & Motor Corporation, leaving 923 engines that are in a serviceable condition. In view of the large number of Liberty engines required for the planes now in storage that are to be placed in service in the near future, it will be necessary to purchase a large number of Liberty engine spares for the engines now in need of overhaul.

At the present time there are in storage at the naval aircraft storehouse 596 new and 427 overhauled Liberty engines, or a total of 1,023 engines that are in a serviceable condition. The office of the Chief of Naval Operations has withdrawn 77 H-16 and 130 F-5-L flying boats that were listed for sale. These planes will require 621 engines. Approximately 100 HS-2 flying boats have been sold to the Aeromarine Plane & Motor Corporation. These boats will require 100 Liberty engines, leaving 302 engines available for new construction and for replacement of engines that have been worn out in service. It can readily be seen that unless a supply of Liberty engine parts is purchased and the engines now in need of overhaul are placed in a serviceable condition, that the supply of Liberty engines will be exhausted within the next 18 months.

Mr. HICKS. Of course we all know there has been a great deal of dispute about the value of the Liberty motor. A great many people think the Liberty motor is a good motor for areial purposes. Is that the opinion of your department?

Capt. CRAVEN. That flight to Alaska by the Army and the flights which we have made recently to Panama and the flights last year over the West Indies clearly demonstrated it as a magnificent motor.

Mr. HICKS. Now, Captain, get this down specifically. The NC-4's that made the trip across the Atlantic were propelled by Liberty motors, were they not?

Capt. CRAVEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. HICKS. And that flight between San Diego and Panama? Capt. CRAVEN. Yes; and the flight to Alaska and back by Liberty

motor.

Mr. HICKS. And in all those trips the Liberty motor came up to the test, did it not?

Capt. CRAVEN. Yes, completely.

Mr. HICKS. What other types are we using in the Navy?

Capt. CRAVEN. We have numerous types, both of foreign motors and of American motors. I will ask Mr. Kraus to enumerate some of them. They are immediately under his cognizance.

Commander KRAUS. The principal ones other than the Liberty are the Wright motor, formerly known as the Hispano-Suiza; there are three different types of that engine ranging in power from 150 to 300 horsepower, there are recent developments by the Packard Co., ranging from about 200 horsepower to above 500 horsepower; the Curtiss motors ranging in power from about 100 to 350 horsepower. Those are the principal motors actually in use at the present. The Aero-Marine Co. manufactures two types of motors, one of 125 and the other of about 180 horsepower. Under development there are a number of other engines ranging from 60 horsepower to about 1,000 horsepower. The foreign motors we have inserted are generally either rotary or fixed air-cooled types and range from about 80 horsepower to about 220.

Mr. HICKS. And what are the names of the foreign motors? Commander KRAUS. Gnomes, Clerget, Bentley Radial, and Le

Rhone.

Mr. KETTNER. Mostly French motors?

Commander KRAUS. Either French motors or French development. and English manufactured in a good many cases. We have some Salmson, Frat, Jsolta, Hur Austro-Daimler, and other foreign typessome of them samples of enemy aircraft power plant practice.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, you are not building any new motors, if you have 5,800.

Commander KRAUS. We are not building any new engines where we have a supply of engines of satisfactory type.

Mr. HICKS. Let me ask you this: With all the stock of Liberty motors on hand are we not trying to transfer some to the Army people or the post office people or sell to outside parties?

Commander KRAUS. We have supplied Liberty motors to the Post Office Department and have effected some exchanges with the War Department, and have made some sales to outside parties.