[No. 3.] COMMITTEE ON NAVAL AFFAIRS, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Washington, D. C., January 17, 1918. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. L. P. Padgett (chairman), presiding. The CHAIRMAN. If the committee will come to order, I think we might proceed. Gentlemen, we have with us this morning Admiral Palmer, Chief of the Bureau of Navigation. STATEMENT OF REAR ADMIRAL LEIGH C. PALMER, CHIEF BUREAU OF NAVIGATION, DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY. The CHAIRMAN. Turn to page 12, Bureau of Navigation, "Transportation." I would make a suggestion that we would take up the estimates as they are submitted and the appropriations, and after we have finished with the appropriations and the estimates, that we would then take up such suggestions as may be offered with reference to legislation, so as to separate all appropriations from discussions of legislation and proceed with it in that way. Admiral, I notice that the "Bureau of Navigation, transportation," is the same until you reach line 2 on page 13, and you have some new language there, "Transportation of civilian officers and crews of naval auxiliaries." Will you please explain that to us? Admiral PALMER. That was put in so we could allow for our transportation an amount sufficient to cover the transportation of those officers and crews who now have to be sent over land or by steamer to join their ships. That will be a very small amount in proportion, but it is to include all in this one appropriation. The CHAIRMAN. Then further down you have some new language: Expenses of recruiting for the naval service, rent of rendezvous, and expenses of maintaining the same; such as rental, maintenance, operation, exchange and repair of motor-propelled passenger-carrying vehicles for official use, advertising for and obtaining men and apprentice seamen, actual and necessary expenses in lieu of mileage to officers on duty with traveling recruiting parties. Explain that. Admiral PALMER. We came to an agreement in the department to put these two items of transportation and recruiting under one head, so that we would have more leeway in making use of the total amount; that is, if we had a little over on transportation and under on recruiting at the end of the year we could shift from one to the other. Mr. HICKS. May I ask what has publicity cost per recruit in your advertising, etc? Have you figured that out? Admiral PALMER. We have not been able to figure that out, how much it costs, on account of the way the recruits have come in. The expenses vary in different districts. I can get you the average amount and give you that for a certain stated time, say for the past six months or the past year. Mr. BUTLER. Has Admiral Palmer told us whether he has fully recruited? The CHAIRMAN. No; we had just commenced, with one or two questions only. If I understand you, then, in this language you have consolidated these separate appropriations for recruiting-and what was the other one? Admiral PALMER. And transportation. The CHAIRMAN. And transportation, so as to make them interchangeable. Admiral PALMER. Yes, sir. Mr. BRITTEN. What are the increases that involve this $4,000,000? Admiral PALMER. Increase of about $250,000 over the last year. You will notice the last item about $4,850,000 was appropriated last year, and this year we have estimated for $5,100,000. Mr. BRITTEN. On page 13, which I have before me, the amount, $1,060,524, is scratched out, indicating that that was the amount carried in last year's bill, and an amount of $1,500,000 is substituted. The CHAIRMAN. If you will look, however, in the margin, you will see that last year there were supplemental appropriations for deficiencies, under the act of June 15, 1917, of $1,659,325, and October 6, 1917, of $700,000, to be added to the original act. After the outbreak of the war the supplemental deficiencies were carried. Mr. HICKS. Is there any provision made for allowance to officers en route to their stations? For instance, I conceive this possibility: An officer might be assigned to foreign duty. He arrives at New York and has to wait there two weeks before he can go aboard a ship. Is there any allowance made for his board in that interim? Admiral PALMER. No, sir; unless he has orders to wait at that place, when he can get such expenses, amounting to about $5 a day. But very often we have officers that are sent to a certain point to take a ship on a certain day, and if the ship does not arrive they lose out, but generally we try to cover that by orders which will permit. them to get expenses during the period they are waiting for transportation. Mr. HICKS. But there is considerable loss to men on account of that delay? Admiral PALMER. I do not think it amounts to very much. The CHAIRMAN. The orders are so shifted as to take care of them? Mr. HICKS. They ought to be, but I am afraid sometimes there is a gap there. Admiral PALMER. We always have them telegraph in to us now, so that we can give them orders to cover that, in case any accident of that kind happens. Mr. VENABLE. I wish to call attention to this fact, Mr. Chairman, that the appropriations, on page 13, exceed the appropriations of last year $260,923.16, which is arrived at by adding together the regular appropriation for 1918, together with the deficiency appropriations, listed on pages 13 and 14. I call your attention to that fact because unless that is understood it appears as if the excess was something a little over $4,000,000. Admiral PALMER. The excess is due to transportation and the necessity for sending officers and men very often by steamers rather than by public conveyance, because public conveyance does not go often enough to fill the war needs. Also, we have had to have a great deal more transportation by land on account of the number of new training depots and stations. There is a great deal more transportation of that kind. Mr. OLIVER. What is the increased number of training depots and stations? Admiral PALMER. I should say, roughly, we have 12 additional training depots, where we do not have complete training for the men. The places are used more as housing places until we are able either to transport men to their training stations or to ships. Mr. HICKS. May I ask you as to the radio men in the merchant service? On the merchant ships that are manned by naval gun crews, I understand at the present time that the wireless operators are not enlisted men. You contemplate, I understand, taking them over into the Navy or having the radio department at least under naval control. Admiral PALMER. We contemplate having all the men that go through the war zone regular naval radio men. We were asked by Gen. Goethals, when he was in the Shipping Board, to arrange for a supply of radio men for all the new merchant shipping, and we started a school for that purpose. We now have about 3,000 men at this school at Harvard College, Cambridge, Mass., training for this very work. Mr. HICKS. How many months does it take to perfect a man in that service? Admiral PALMER. Depending on his knowledge when he comes in, from 9 to 11 weeks, roughly. Mr. HICKS. Is he enlisted for the special service? Admiral PALMER. They are enlisted or enrolled in the regular service or in the reserves in any district, and then are selected by the commandant on account of their special qualifications and are sent to the school at Harvard. Mr. HICKS. They are enlisted for a special branch of the service? Admiral PALMER. Not necessarily, although we will take all those that will come in as radio men and enlist them for this particular work. Mr. BRITTEN. Do you have any trouble getting a sufficient number? Admiral PALMER. So far we have had no trouble. Mr. HICKS. You are a great believer in having them come under the naval discipline for those ships traversing the war zone. Admiral PALMER. Yes, sir; but I am not in a position to advocate it. I think that the Shipping Board will probably ask us or urge us to take it over, but as far as my bureau is concerned it is the most difficult thing for it to assume this added responsibility. The only provision we wish to make about it is that sufficient notice shall be given, so that we can provided quarters and training facilities for all these men and officers, and that will take from five to six months. Mr. OLIVER. The importance of this has been presented to the Shipping Board, in the event you are expected to take over these ships? Admiral PALMER. Yes, I think so. I sent a statement of this through the Chief of Operations. Mr. BROWNING. It is your personal opinion that it should be done? Admiral PALMER. It is my personal opinion that it should be done, but the Bureau of Navigation is not the organization to urge it. Mr. BROWNING. I understand that; but I was just getting at your personal opinion. Admiral PALMER. Yes, sir. Mr. HICKS. Did Harvard College donate the dormitory for the use of the Navy? Admiral PALMER. Yes; they have donated it freely, and they really have done wonderful work for us in assisting us from a school of approximately 150 men to now approximately 3,000. Mr. OLIVER. Do you contemplate it will be necessary for you to call young women into this service on shore, or will you probably have a sufficient force from the enlisted men? Admiral PALMER. So far as we can see now we will probably have a sufficient force from the enlisted men, but the war may develop to such an extent that we may have to make use of a certain number of women operators on shore. Mr. OLIVER. You might make some statement with reference to this recreation for enlisted men. Admiral PALMER. The amount for the recreation for enlisted men is the same as last year, $150,000. This is to provide amusement and entertainment and athletic events for the enlisted men, both afloat and ashore. It is to be expended in the discretion of the Secretary of the Navy. This last year we expended $100,000 of this by allotting it to the various Navy training stations and training camps. The Secretary gave $50,000 of this to the chairman of the war training camp activities, and I do not know how they have used that money, but it is possible they have given some of it to the Y. M. C. A. The war training camp activities are now asking for more money, and want to use all of this $150,000, but we think it well for our regular training stations to provide for their own athletic contests and amusements as far as they can and as they have been doing very successfully up to this time. Mr. OLIVER. How do they provide the funds for that purpose? Admiral PALMER. By donations from various sources, and we understand from them that they collected as much as four or five millions all over the country to be used in the entertainment of enlisted men. It is not very clear why they want part of this sum except that I think they have song leaders that they want to put in these training stations and teach all the men to sing, and their first estimate on that was a certain amount of pay for song leaders. We, of course, did not take that up as a very important thing for winning the war. Our needs are for athletics and amusements, so that the recruits will not get stale. Mr. OLIVER. Is not there some danger of duplicating a lot of this welfare work? Admiral PALMER. Yes, sir; I should say there would be. Mr. BRITTEN. I had a request from a house in Chicago wanting to know how they could get into these various camps. Would they go through your bureau or would they go through a special bureau? Admiral PALMER. I think it would now go through the Training Camp Activities Board. Mr. BRITTEN. Would that apply to the naval training stations as well as the Army? Admiral PALMER. Yes, sir. It was suggested that they should make the men whom they assigned to amusement and athletic work reserve commissioned officers and have them wear the uniform, since they were to be employed in the camp. I did not approve of that, as I thought the uniform should not be worn by people who are instructing along some special line, and who really had no naval knowledge and were not assisting the Navy in any special naval way toward the winning of the war. I think that it is as well to take advantage of what amusements they offer, but to have them do it freely and to go in without asking for commissions. Mr. BROWNING. It seems to me some style of uniform would be a very good idea. Admiral PALMER. Some style of uniform would be a very good idea, just so it is not the naval uniform. Mr. BROWNING. Yes; not a naval uniform. Mr. HICKS. The Army Y. M. C. A. people have a distinct uniform. Why should not these people have something to distinguish them and which might not confuse them with the men in the Navy? Admiral PALMER. I suggested to them that they have the same uniform that the same men have in the Army. Mr. OLIVER. To what extent are they subject to naval discipline? Admiral PALMER. None at all. Mr. OLIVER. How many of them have been commissioned? Admiral PALMER. For us, none have been commissioned. I objected to it very strongly. Mr. OLIVER. They have no uniforms, have they? Admiral PALMER. No, sir. We have not given them uniforms. Mr. HENSLEY. How did you take their suggestion that they wear the uniform that these men in the Army wore? Admiral PALMER. They wanted to wear a naval uniform. They insisted that they would have more prestige in the camp if they wore the uniform. Mr. HENSLEY. And wanted to be distinct from the same fellows in the Army? Admiral PALMER. Yes, sir. Mr. VENABLE. Is there any reason why they should have more prestige? Admiral PALMER. None at all. The commandant is very keen on making use of everybody's ability along that line to aid in the war camp. Hundreds of people have come and offered their services, and have given their services in the training stations, and the commandant has made use of them, and they get along very well without any uniform. Mr. HICKS. I would be very much in favor of them having some uniform, but very much opposed to them having a uniform such as the naval men wear. Admiral PALMER. So I suggested to them that they have some uniform such as other organizations. The Red Cross has a uniform-any uniform except a naval uniform. Mr. BROWNING. I am like Mr. Butler. I am very much opposed to anybody wearing a uniform who is not entitled to it. Mr. VENABLE. There is no reason in the world why you should give a uniform to a man unless it contributes something to the service. You do not want to give a uniform to a man to gratify his sense of pride. 70098-18-3 |