AIR WAR AGAINST NORTH VIETNAM

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 9, 1967

U.S. SENATE,

PREPAREDNESS INVESTIGATING SUBCOMMITTEE
OF THE COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee (composed of Senators Stennis (chairman), Symington, Jackson, Cannon, Byrd of West Virginia, Smith, and Thurmond) met, pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in room 224, Old Senate Office Building, Senator John Stennis (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senators Stennis, Symington, Jackson, Cannon, Smith, Thurmond, and Miller.

Also present: Senators McIntyre and Pearson of the full Committee on Armed Services; Senator Case of New Jersey.

James T. Kendall, Chief Counsel; Ben Gilleas, Director of Investigations; Stuart P. French, Minority Counsel, and Robert M. Neal and Lt. Col. Everette Harper, Professional Staff Members.

Senator STENNIS. The subcommittee will please come to order. I have a brief statement that I shall read, and then I have a few questions to ask for the subcommittee. We have the entire day, and as much additional time, members of the subcommittee, as may be necessary.

It is highly important that Admiral Sharp, General Ryan, and Admiral Johnson are here. It is highly important to the country. It is rather reassuring, I believe, to the people of the Nation that under our system, these gentlemen who have so much of the responsibility in this growing war can come and talk to the elected representatives of the people, even though they can't talk directly to the people.

I have just spent 2 days away from Washington, and I know there is a growing concern about this war. I don't think your appearance here can be overemphasized, gentlemen. I appreciate your attitude that, even though you are all quite in demand in your posts of duty, you are willing to give us such time as we need.

This is a day, incidentally, where there may be some rollcall votes on the floor, and, if so, we will have to attend to those. I will check into that and see if we can make arrangements to have a meeting place in the Capitol this afternoon.

Senator JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, I think the first vote will come at 2:15.

Senator STENNIS. That has been arranged. I see. Well, that will be during our recess. We will get a further report on that.

I have this idea: That in this special and important hearing there will be many other witnesses. We will certainly call the Chiefs of Staff, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the Secretary of Defense,

and others. I think it is best that all witnesses be sworn. For that reason I am going to ask you gentlemen to take the oath.

We are a subcommittee, gentlemen, which takes pride in the fact that we do not leak things out. Classified matters do not leak from this subcommittee. At the same time we reserve the right at all times to exercise what I believe is at least a limited right of the Congress to pass on what is classified and what is not classified. At the same time, however, we are now rigidly following the rule that we don't leak these matters.

I think I should read this statement, if the membership would care to follow it. I have already given it to the press.

OPENING STATEMENT BY CHAIRMAN

Today we open our hearing on the conduct and effectiveness of the air war against North Vietnam with Adm. Ulysses S. G. Sharp, Commander in Chief of U.S. forces in the Pacific, as our principal witness. He is accompanied by Gen. John Ryan, Commanding General of the Pacific Air Force, and Adm. Roy Johnson, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet.

This is an extremely important hearing. It could have a direct effect on the war in Southeast Asia. Although it is directed specifically toward the air war against North Vietnam, it will necessarily involve the overall policy and philosophy governing and controlling the conduct of the entire war.

Admiral Sharp is the chief operational commander of our forces in the Pacific. He has overall responsibility for the air war and controls and directs the Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps aviation forces which carry out the operational missions against North Vietnam. Because of this and from the wealth of his military experience and professional expertise, he can give us firsthand authoritative information and advice on the very difficult problems and important questions involved in our inquiry.

We are going to inquire into all of the important aspects of the air war, including the processes for the selection and approval of targets, the effectiveness of the air campaign, the lucrative targets which have not yet been struck, the probable consequences of either increasing or decreasing the bombing, and particularly the impact on our fighting men in South Vietnam, and all related matters.

We plan to call on many qualified persons and sources for the information and counsel which we need. Our future witnesses will include Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara; Gen. Earle G. Wheeler, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Gen. Harold K. Johnson, Chief of Staff, U.S. Army; Adm. T. H. Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations; Gen. John P. McConnell, Chief of Staff, U.S. Air Force; and Gen. Wallace M. Greene, Commandant, U.S. Marine Corps. This is by no means intended as a complete witness list.

My own personal opinion, which I have expressed many times in the past, is that it would be a tragic and perhaps fatal mistake for us to suspend or restrict the bombing. I am gratified by the stepup in the air operations which has occurred since this hearing was announced. It has brought increased pressure on the enemy. I hope this pressure will be further increased and expanded and that it will hasten the end of this unhappy war.

By slowing, reducing, and restricting the flow of supplies to the south the bombing of North Vietnam has saved the lives of many brave Americans. We know from the bitter experience of previous suspensions of the bombing during truce periods that such lulls are used by the enemy to build up forces and supplies that are used to kill and wound many valiant Americans.

In my opinion this is no time to reduce or diminish the pressure or to throw away any military advantage.

The effectiveness or impact of the bombing cannot be measured alone by the number of missions flown or the number of bombs dropped. The real question is whether we are doing what we can and should do in the opinion of our military experts to hit the enemy when and where and in a manner that will end the war soonest and thus save American lives.

Admiral, we have a number of reports about what our allies are doing and what they are going to do. We are not expecting you to pass on that, but CBS news from Saigon yesterday morning and again last night said they weren't going to do anything more. Those things disturb me and they disturb the American people.

I made a short statement, members of the subcommittee, this morning on television because I have learned that if someone doesn't speak for the subcommittee, when it is sitting, they will put on somebody they can find out there in the hall and let them speak for the subcommittee, even though they are not members. Therefore, I made a few remarks for the subcommittee.

I said that I thought the question was growing in Congress as to whether it is wise to send more men if we are going to just leave them at the mercy of the guerrilla war without trying to cut off the enemy's supplies more effectively. I think, that is something that will come within the field of this inquiry.

Gentlemen, this is Senator Case of New Jersey.

WITNESSES TESTIFY UNDER OATH

Now if you gentlemen will please rise and be sworn.

Do you and each of you solemnly swear that your testimony in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Admiral SHARP. I do.

General RYAN. I do.

Admiral JOHNSON. I do.

Senator STENNIS. You will note the names of the gentlemen that

were sworn.

Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman.

Senator STENNIS. Yes, Mrs. Smith.

Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman, I have read Admiral Sharp's excellent statement. However, I have been called upon to chair the appropriations for the Commerce Committee until one of the chairmen arrives, so, if I leave and return, I trust you will understand, Admiral. I do have some questions that I will want to ask the admiral before the day is over.

Senator STENNIS. We are certainly pleased that you are here. We want you to come back as soon as you can. Mrs. Smith has for a long time been a very valuable member of this subcommittee. I am not

flattering her, but she carries a very heavy load here and she is the ranking member of the minority party on the subcommittee, although we don't have a real division along partisan lines.

Shall we ask the admiral to proceed, gentlemen? We do have representatives here from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the four military services, and the Secretary of Defense. They are here as observers. It is like holding an election down in Mississippi. You know the Federal Government sends out observers.

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, may I request that the people in the room assigned to the three leading witnesses rise and identify themselves.

Senator STENNIS. That is a good suggestion. I will start with the Department of Defense. Let's have whoever represents the Department of Defense rise and identify himself for the record.

Colonel GARCIA. I am Colonel Garcia, Mr. Chairman, representing the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

Senator STENNIS. The Department of the Army.

Colonel CHILD. I am Colonel Child and I represent the Secretary of the Army's Office.

Senator STENNIS. Navy.

Captain KELLY. Captain Kelly, Mr. Chairman, representing the Navy.

General LIGHTNER. General Lightner, representing the Air Force. Colonel WILSON. Lieutenant Colonel Wilson, representing Headquarters, Marine Corps.

Captain SWEITZER. Captain Sweitzer, military assistant, Office of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Colonel GARCIA. The remainder are all part of Admiral Sharp's group.

Senator STENNIS. We are glad to have you here and we are glad to have the members of Admiral Sharp's staff.

After the admiral's statement, we will have a question period and I want every Senator to have the chance to ask you all the questions he wants to.

Admiral you are entirely on your own and we want you to feel free to tell us everything. You are not confined to your written statement in making your point. If any point comes to your mind, whether expressly called for or not, you gentlemen just speak right up.

All right, let's proceed.

TESTIMONY OF ADM. ULYSSES S. G. SHARP, COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF U.S. FORCES IN THE PACIFIC; ACCOMPANIED BY GEN. JOHN RYAN, COMMANDING GENERAL OF THE PACIFIC AIR FORCE; AND ADM. ROY JOHNSON, COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE PACIFIC FLEET

Admiral SHARP. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am pleased and honored to respond to your request that I appear before you in connection with your hearings on the conduct and effectiveness of the air campaign against North Vietnam.