Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir. What I did have done before we declared war was this: We knew nothing at all about this country right up to the west of Savannah, Brunswick, and Jacksonville, leading over to Atlanta and Birmingham. We did not have any maps of the wooded areas and the swamp lands, and they are the controlling features down there. So I asked the Geological Survey early in the spring to start their people in making reconnoissances along the lines of communication there so that we could get some kind of knowledge of those areas. They are finishing up this portion of the coast right here indicating]. They are also working here and there in Virginia indicating. You may remember that the last time I told you we did not have any of Virginia, but we have some of that now. Then there is a little area up here in New York and a little area in Delaware.

Mr. CANNON. What is the scale of that map?

Gen. BLACK. Each one of these [indicating] represents one map, and the scale of it, as finished, is 1 inch to the mile. This [indicating] is an index map of the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. I may have an erroneous impression about this. and I will ask you this: With the expenditure of this $1.500.000 will you have a detail map of the country from the border to the Gulf, for a distance of 100 miles along the coast?

Gen. BLACK. No, sir: we will not have it from the border to the Gulf, but we will have it from New Orleans up to Portland, Me., except the Peninsula of Florida and the coast of Texas.

The CHAIRMAN. From what you stated it would look as if it would go up to Norfolk.

Gen. BLACK. We have already made military maps that are practically continuous, covering the country along the coast from Portland, Me.. down to Norfolk.

The CHAIRMAN. You have that already?

Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir. That is not for 100 miles in, but it is for quite a distance in.

Maj. RIDLEY. We have maps covering the country for 100 miles in except for a few places. The military information in connection with those maps has been secured for the various localities along there, but not for 100 miles in.

The CHAIRMAN. Will that take a large number of men away? Gen. BLACK. We are having the Geological Survey to do it entirely now. None of our engineer officers are engaged on that work at all.

The CHAIRMAN. Have all of the men in the Geological Survey detailed to this work been commissioned?

Gen. BLACK. I think all who are working on it have been commissioned, have they not, Major Ridley?

. Maj. RIDLEY. No. sir; they have not been commissioned yet. There is the list of them: they are regular employees of the Geological Survey.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you put that in the record for us?
Gen. BLACK. Yes. sir: if you wish.

Statement relative to reserve officers now on active duty on military mapping who were formerly employees of the Geological Surrey.

These men are capable of independent charge of small parties and will be assigned to such work when other chiefs of parties are called for service abroad.

The CHAIRMAN. They are paid out of your appropriation and not out of the appropriation for the Geological Survey?

Gen. BLACK. Yes; while they are on this military mapping work. They did start on that before we could commission them at all, and they worked for about two or three months on the military map work before we could get commissions for them. Since then they have been working under commissions. Those maps containing military information are made up in our depot; they are not printed by the Geological Survey. The information is all turned over to the Army for confidential purposes; that is the reason.

Mr. CANNON. Do you mean to say that those geological employees are commissioned?

Gen. BLACK. Yes.

Mr. CANNON. What commissions have been given to them?

Gen. BLACK. Some of them are majors, some captains, some first lieutenants, and some second lieutenants, according to the kind of work they are doing.

Mr. CANNON. They have had no military experience?

Gen. BLACK. No, sir; none at all, except they have been working on this same thing. I might say that some of them have already been sent to France for the same sort of work right at the front, and there will be some more sent over there.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any advantage in having them commissioned, and, if so, what is the object?

Gen. BLACK. The only object is that they are working entirely for us and doing work that our commissioned officers would do if we had them; it is regular Army work that they are doing.

The CHAIRMAN. It relieves your commissioned officers?

Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. It would still relieve your officers whether they were commissioned or not, would it not?

Gen. BLACK. It would.

Mr. SHERLEY. Then, what is the reason for commissioning them? Gen. BLACK. The only reason was to help out the Geological Survey, because they are working on our work.

Mr. SHERLEY. I do not see that, because they would still work on your work whether they were commissioned or not.

Gen. BLACK. If they had the money.

Mr. SHERLEY. Well, if they got the money from you?

Gen. BLACK. But they do not get enough from us.

Mr. SHERLEY. You do not catch the point. Why does the personnel have to be commissioned in order to get the funds?

Gen. BLACK. It does not.

Mr. SHERLEY. Then what reason is there for commissioning them? Gen. BLACK. Because they are doing a part of the military work which is ordinarily assigned to the Army.

Mr. SHERLEY. I understand, but that is not, apparently, any reason, although it may be an excuse.

Gen. BLACK. We did not intend it as an excuse.

Mr. SHERLEY. It greatly increases their pay for doing the work, does it not?

Gen. BLACK. Not very much, sir, but slightly.

The CHAIRMAN. It does, if you include their allowances?

Gen. BLACK. Maj. Ridley has made that up, but in the field they do not get allowances.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they not get commutation of quarters?

Gen. BLACK. No, sir; not in the field. They are on the same footing as an officer, and an officer who is out with troops does not get commutation of quarters.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other allowances?

Gen. BLACK. None that I know of; I do not think of any. All that an officer gets from the Government consists, first, of his pay proper; second, commutation for quarters, which includes a certain amount for heat and light, and that is all.

Mr. CANNON. And, third, constantly increasing longevity pay, promotions, etc. Are these men in the Regular Army?

Gen. BLACK. No, sir; they are in the Reserve Corps. None of them have longevity, because none of them will be in the service five years. They only get their base pay.

Mr. CANNON. When peace comes they go back to civil life?
Gen. BLACK. Yes.

Mr. CANNON. They are only commissioned for this special service? Gen. BLACK. They are only called into service during this emer

gency.

Mr. CANNON. There will be no retired list for them?

Gen. BLACK. No, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. If it means an additional expense to the Government when the Government is rapidly going broke it might be desirable to know why we should carry this burden.

Gen. BLACK. Well, it is simply because of the confidential nature of the work and the hold that we have on them by giving them commissions.

Mr. SHERLEY. That may be a satisfactory reason.

Gen. BLACK. That was the reason we had.

The CHAIRMAN. They were doing, under the law. a part of this work anyway, were they not?

Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir: a very small part of it.

The CHAIRMAN. And we provided that the Geological Survey should give preference to work required by the War Department? Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So that prior to the outbreak of the war they were required by law not only to do this general mapping work, but if the War Department wanted something done they had to give the department preference?

Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir.

Mr. CANNON. And under these circumstances they would not be subject to draft?

Gen. BLACK. Most of them are too old; I do not think it takes them out of the draft, except the younger ones.

Mr. CANNON. They would be taken out if an affidavit were filed showing that this work was necessary?

Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir: they probably would be. The act that Mr. Fitzgerald is reading was passed for the purpose of getting a plain geological survey of the areas that we wanted, and that does not entail a lot of military information at all; their regular duties did not call on them to give us this military information, but when they work for us and under us they do the whole thing together, getting the military information along with the regular work of the survey. Mr. SHERLEY. Is there any reason why they should not still do it all whether commissioned or not?

Gen. BLACK. No, sir; they could do it, except we would not have the same hold on them as to the confidential nature of the information; there is no other reason. There are 13 of these men who are detailed for duty with this Heavy Artillery brigade which is being formed, and their function there will be range finding principally, because it is strictly survey work.

The CHAIRMAN. Engineer work?

Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir. One of the principal men here went with Gen. Pershing on his staff as topographer for military surveying there, and we have information that in addition to that 45 more have gone or will soon go.

The CHAIRMAN. And you expect to utilize them in military work? Gen. BLACK. Military mapping at the front in France.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that mapping in the field or at the scene of activities work that belongs peculiarly to the engineers?

Gen. BLACK. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. So that it must be done by officers of your corps whether taken in the reserves or in the regular organization?

Gen. BLACK. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there an advantage in taking these men who have been engaged continuously in that work and assigning them to it rather than to take men out of your corps?

Gen. BLACK. We have not enough men in our corps to assign to that work. The corps of engineers as organized for our Army is entirely too small even to officer the engineer regiments that are formed. The first regiment of engineers, stationed at the Washington Barracks, has one captain and all of its lieutenants taken from the reserve corps, and for the new regiments in the National Army the best I can hope to do will be to give about two Regular officers to a regiment and all of the rest of the officers will be taken from the Engineer Reserve Corps, which is made up from the engineers of the country everywhere. We have sent over to Gen. Pershing 10 or 12 Regular engineer officers for his staff. When Gen. Pershing went over there first he took 4 engineer officers with him; then he telegraphed back and got 10 more sent over and from 15 to 20 reserve officers. That is simply for staff work there. So that the corps can not begin to fill the bill, and I have got to take these men. Now, in regard to training. This topographical training of the Geological Survey has come nearer to military mapping than any other one civilian employment, so that the more we can get of them for that particular class of work the better we are off.

The CHAIRMAN. When is it expected that this particular mapping will be completed?

Capt. RIDLEY. Just about a year from the time it is started.

Mr. SHERLEY. In view of the demand you are going to make upon the engineers of the country and particularly upon engineers who are capable of doing war mapping work, is it advisable to put this burden upon the Geological Survey, which will be the source from which you would get men if you had a demand upon you for additional men for European service?

Gen. BLACK. If this mapping is necessary, they can do it, and there are enough engineers in the country to be trained up to it. It simply relieves the engineer department of that work; that is all. Mr. SHERLEY. I understand that, but that is not the point I am making. The Geological Survey supply is limited.

Gen. BLACK. They take on new men as they need them.

Mr. SHERLEY. But those men are not trained in this work?
Gen. BLACK. No, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. The question is this: The mapping work not now being important in relation to the present war, whether you should. at a time when you are going to need all the map makers you can get to go abroad, put the burden of map making here at home upon the Geological Survey now?

Gen. BLACK. The most obvious answer to that question is, No; but when I see that through so many years we did not get any maps at all, it is a question whether we should not go ahead with that and get that finished for the coast when we can, because I do not want more than the coast. It will take a year to do the work, and, sav,