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the Treasury sanctioned the proposed Museum at South Kensington is kept terms provided that repayment were open ? made upon the instalment system in *SIR J. GORST: I am advised by place of the annuity system. This the trustees of the British Museum course was taken in accordance with that the desired extension of hours the principles laid down in the Trea- could not be carried out without insury letter of 24th February to the ciease of expense; and in view of London County Council as those which the great cost of the evening opening, should be adopted pending a settlement which, to judge by the attendance, of the general question. One of the does not seem to be as fully appreciated considerations which the Treasury took by the public as might have been into account was the opinion of those hoped, they are not disposed to recommembers of the London County Council mend further outlay. who, I think the House will agree, may rightly be regarded as the highest

MARINE BOILERS. financial authorities among its mem- MR. MATHER (Lancashire, S.E., bers. I understand that the sanction Gorton) : I beg to ask the First Lord of the Local Government Board was of the Admiralty whether he will engiven merely to the raising of the money large the scope of the instructions to and not to the particular method of the Committee of eminent engineers repayment.

which he has appointed to examine and report on

the construction of THE CARRIAGE OF IRISH MAILS.

boilers for the Navy, in the following MR. KNOX (Cavan, W.): I beg to ask directions, namely, to conduct on land the Postmaster General whether he will

a series of trials with a boiler worked consider the advisability of using the with forced draught, and constructed Cavan, Leitrim, and Roscommon Light so as to be similar and equal as to Railway for the carriage of mails, which design, materials, and workmanship to are now delayed for nearly a day at the best boilers now used in the Navy, each end of the line and then conveyed with the view of ascertaining the by car ; what was the sum demanded efficiency and maximum power of enby the Railway Company and what durance of the same; to conduct on was the sum offered by the Post Office land a similar series of trials with a for the conveyance of mails over the 50 boiler or boilers embodying all the miles of the company's line when the improvements that may be recomquestion was previously considered ; mended by the Special Committee, in and what is the present cost of the order that these may be tested under conveyance of mails from Belturbet the greatest possible stress to which and Dromod respectively to the various a boiler can be subjected at full racing stations on the company's line ? speed; and to exhaust, by practical

SIR J. FERGUSSON: The Post tests on land, all other questions that Office desired to employ the railway in have arisen out of the shortcomings of question for certain day mails, but the present boilers when worked with failed to come to terms. The Post forced draught; and whether he is Office offered full parcel rates to the aware that similar exhaustive trials to company, which would amount to about those here suggested were made to $21 a year. The company asked £90. establish the best design and conThe company could only relieve the struction of the so-called " Lancapresent service to a limited extent. The shire" boilers, before their present present cost of conveying the mails to high efficiency and durability were obthe district is £309 a year.

tained ?


to the hon. Member for his suggestion COLONEL BRIDGEMAN (Bolton): to put marine boilers to the same I beg to ask the Secretary to the practical test which, in his own ex-" Treasury whether there is any ob- perience, he found to be of value in jection to keeping the British Museum testing the Lancashire boilers. The open to the public in the afternoon proposals in question, with others, will till the same hour as the Branch be referred to the Committee for con

sideration, and any experiments they award. There has been no repayment recommend will, as far as practicable, of principal made under the award ; be carried out.

but £700 has been paid in respect of

arrears of interest. THE CASE OF MICHAEL CRONIN. MR. FLYNN: Will the right hon.

MR. FLYNN (Cork, N.): I beg to Gentleman give me a copy of his ask the Attorney General for Ireland answer, as I was not able to take down whether his attention has been called the figures? to the case against Michael Cronin, indicted at the Cork Assizes on the

LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD 21st instant on the charge of having

MEDICAL INSPECTORS. stolen four head of cattle, the property MR. S. T. EVANS (Glamorgan, of the Earl of Kenmare, in which the Mid.): I beg to ask the President of the accused defended himself on the ground Local Government Board whether he that it was an act of reprisal on the is aware that the Medical Inspectors of Earl of Kenmare for having made three the Board in Wales are unable to speak distraints of his father's cattle; and the Welsh language ; and whether, in was the case tried under the Criminal future appointments of such Inspectors, Law and Procedure Act, and what was he will select persons, otherwise well the result of the trial; and, if so, why qualified, who will be conversant with was it not tried under the ordinary the language ? law ?

MR. RITCHIE: It is only for the *THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR purpose of vaccination inspections that IRELAND (Mr. MADDEN, Dublin districts are assigned to the Medical University) : I am informed

informed that Inspectors of the Local Government the suggestion contained in the first Board, and officers who act in Wales paragraph of the question was put take English counties as well. As forward on behalf of Cronin. The regards the general duties of the Inaccused, however, pleaded guilty to the spectors, it is the practice to select for charge of larceny, and was sentenced each inquiry the Inspector who appears to three months' imprisonment, and to be best fitted for the duty, having was bound over to be of good behaviour regard to the engagements of the other for three years. Two seizures were members of the staff. At the same made in respect of four years' arrears time I may say that in the event of my of rent. The venue was changed to having to fill up an office where the the City of Cork, but the case was duties of the officer would chiefly be in investigated by the Magistrates, and Wales, and I had before me two cansubsequently dealt with at the Assizes didates who, apart from the question of under the ordinary law,

the Welsh language, were in all other

respects equally well qualified for the KINSALE PIER LOAN.

position, I should be willing to give the MR. FLYNN: I beg to ask the preference to the candidate with a Secretary to the Treasury, in connec- knowledge of the Welsh language. tion with the construction of Kinsale Pier, what was the amount of the CONVICTIONS OF CLERGYMEN. original sum advanced by the Board of MR. S. T. EVANS: I beg to ask the Works; if he can state at what rate Secretary of State for the Home Dewas the amount to be repaid, naming partment how many clergymen of the principal and interest; what rate of Church of England have been convicted interest was charged on the loan; and of treason or felony, or convicted on how much has been paid by the Kinsale indictment of a misdemeanour, and Town and Harbour Commissioners ? sentenced to death or penal servitude

"SIR J. GORST: The sum advanced or to imprisonment with hard labour was £11,352 15s. 1d. ; £630 of this during the last seven years; and principal sum was repaid, leaving whether, before the Second Reading à balance of £10,722 15s. 1d. This of the Clergy Discipline (Immorality) sum, with £337, arrears of interest at Bill is moved, he will lay upon the five per cent., constitutes the total of Table of the House a Return for such £11,059 15s. 1d. to be repaid under the period of seven years showing all such

Lord G. Hamilton

convictions, with particulars of the one-thirtieth to one-hundreth; that the offences and sentences ?

Government have withdrawn the MR. MATTHEWS: I am unable to Sheriff's officers from Mr. Pritchard answer the first paragraph. The Morgan's property, and have consented Return asked for would involve a to allow the question of payment of costs lengthy and expensive investigation, to remain in abeyance pending the and the information is not necessary issue of the Report of the Royal Comfor the consideration of the Bill. mission, and whether he has any infor

mation as to the alleged dismissal of BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. men from Welsh gold mines ? THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREA MR. GOSCHEN: I have, as the result SURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manches of communications which have passed ter, E.): It would be convenient for between myself and the directors of the Treasury reasons that the Royal Assent Morgan Mine, agreed that the royalty should be given to the Consolidated charged upon the product of the mine Fund Bill to-morrow. I therefore shall be at the rate of 100th until the move, “ That this House do meet To- Commission on Mining Royalties has morrow, at a quarter after Ten of the reported. The ore which has recently clock," it being, of course, understood been won at the Morgan Mine is of a that it will be for the purpose of low grade, and under the sliding scale receiving the Royal Assent, and that which has been offered to the directors no other business will be transacted. of the mine, but not accepted by them, Motion agreed to.

would have been charged with royalty

at the rate of 100th. I have made this Resolved, That this House do meet To-morrow at a quarter after scale which was offered is inequitable,

concession, not because the sliding Ten of the clock a.m.-(Mr. A. J. but to secure a modus vivendi until the Balfour.)

whole question can be considered in MR. J. MORLEY (Newcastle-upon- the light of the Report of the Royal Tyne) : May I ask the right hon. Commission. I have, at the request of Gentleman what Supply is intended to several Members of the House, conbe taken to-morrow, and what are the sented to postpone the execution upon arrangements for taking the Scotch Mr. Pritchard Morgan's goods; and, in Equivalent Grant Bill?

order that this postponement might MR. A. J. BALFOUR: If we are take place, he has signed a binding fortunate enough to get the Speaker agreement undertaking to allow the out of the Chair to-morrow afternoon, Sheriff to re-enter under the same we should proceed with the Civil Ser- writs. I have agreed that this postvice Estimates in Committee. The

ponement shall be made, not until the arrangement with regard to Thursday, Report of the Mining Royalties Comwhich I sketched to the House last mission is received, but to allow time week, still holds good, and will be for in which the hon. Member may be perthe general convenience of Scotch suaded to allow better counsels to Members.

prevail with him with reference to such Later, the right hon. Gentleman said: payment. I understand that the workI ought, perhaps, to state that I answered men who have recently been dismissed the question of the right hon. Gentleman from the Morgan Mine were not in Mr. the Member for Newcastle on the Pritchard Morgan's employment, and assumption that we finish the Second their dismissal had, as I have been Reading of the Indian Councils Bill to assured by a director, no connection night, of which I have no doubt. with the steps taken by the Govern


to recover costs from Mr. ROYALTIES ON GOLD MINES. Pritchard Morgan. MR. LLEWELLYN (Somerset, N.): MR. A. O'CONNOR: May I ask the I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer whether chequer a question, of which I have given the Treasury will be willing to extend him private notice-namely, whether to the gold mining industry in Ireland

is a fact that the royalty on the the same terms as those which have Morgan Mine has been reduced from been granted to Wales ?

MR. GOSCHEN: Under the sliding whether, having regard to the fact scale, if there is any mine in Ireland which I have brought to the notice of where the hundredth part will secure the House that the cause of the eviction the working of the mine, I shall be glad is merely the question of costs between to grant the same terms.

landlord and tenant, he will not allow

the Forces of the Crown to be employed ? SMALL HOLDINGS BILL,

*MR. JACKSON: I have no informaMR. WINTERBOTHAM (Gloucester, tion with reference to this case except Cirencester): May I ask the right hon that which the hon. Gentleman has Gentleman'if he will state that it is not just given to me. Of course, I can intended to take the Small Holdings make no promise as to what protection Bill to-night?

will be afforded if it be applied for. MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I think I can

MR. MAC NEILL: Will the right say that we do not propose to take it hon. Gentleman allow me to put docubefore next Monday, and to take it from ments before him which will show the next Monday as continuously as the terrible harshness in the case ? business will allow. It is convenient to *MR. JACKSON : If the hon. Gentlehon. Members that they should have a man desires to put any information little time to put down Amendments. before me, of course I will examine it.




ORDER OF THE DAY, MR. SEXTON : Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to move the Second INDIAN COUNCILS ACT (1861) AMENDReading of the Irish Local Government Bill before Easter?

MENT BILL-[Lords]—(No. 182.) MR. A. J. BALFOUR: That must

SECOND READING. depend on the progress of the Com

Order for Second Reading read. mittee on the Small Holdings Bill; if we make as much progress as I hope *THE UNDER SECRETARY

STATE INDIA (Mr. CURZON, for, we shall take it before Easter.

Lancashire, Southport): I am glad, CLERGY DISCIPLINE BILL.

Sir, at this early period of the Session,

to be able to introduce to the notice of MR. F. S. POWELL (Wigan): May the House a Bill which, if carried into I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether law, will, I believe, be fraught with he intends to proceed with the Clergy advantage to the interests of our fellowDiscipline Bill this evening?

subjects in India. It is sometimes MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I hope so, said, Sir, that this House bestows but if we should finish the Indian Councils

a scant and reluctant concern upon the Bill in sufficient time to make it worth interests of the millions of India. And while to bring it on.

yet I am not sure that this alleged indif

ference of the many, if it be true, which ORDNANCE FACTORIES BILL.

I do not altogether accept, is not more MR. J. MORLEY: When will the than compensated for by the vigilant right hon. Gentleman go on with the and uncompromising attention of the Ordnance Factories Bill?

few, whilst I have heard it stated on high MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I may put it authority that the greater interference down for to-morrow, as the Debate is of this House in the government of nearly exhausted.

India might not be a source of un

mixed benefit to that country. HowEVICTIONS AT GWEEDORE.

ever that may be, Sir, I hope that this MR. MAC NEILL: May I inform the Bill will be one that may approve it. Chief Secretary for Ireland that I have self to both sections of opinion in this to-day received a telegram from one of House—both to those hon. Members the parish priests at Gweedore, and who may not have direct and personal ask him whether it is true that a experience of India, and to that relieving officer has received notice of smaller section who, either from long the imminent eviction of sixteen fami- residence there or from official exlies on the estate of Mrs. Orr; and perience, are emphatically entitled to

speak on Indian questions, and whose twelve additional Members who are interference in our debates is always nominated by the Governor General, and welcome. And perhaps I may

be of whom at least one-half must be nonpermitted to take this opportunity of official, whether drawn from the expressing the regret which I am European or the native element. The sure has been felt on both sides of the Legislative Councils of Madras and House at the disappearance from Bombay are also recruited by a miniamong their number of the omnivorous mum of four and a maximum of eight intellect of the late hon. Gentleman the additional Members who are nominated Member for Kirkcaldy (Sir George by the Provincial Governor, and of Campbell). The object of this Bill | whom at least one-half must be nonwhich it is my duty to explain to the official. Since the passing of that Act, House is to widen the basis and to Sir, Legislative Councils have been expand the functions of government in called into existence for Bengal and India; to give further opportunities than the North-West Provinces. In Bengal at present exist to the non-official and the Council consists of the Lieutenant native elements in Indian society Governor and twelve nominated Mem. to take part in the work of govern- bers, and the Council of the North-West ment, and in this way to lend official Provinces consists of the Lieutenant recognition to that remarkable develop- Governor and nine Councillors, of whom, ment both of political interest and in each case, one-third must be nonpolitical capacity which has been official. Such is the constitution of the visible among the higher classes of legislative machinery which has existed Indian society since the Government during the past 30 years. This system of India was taken over by the Crown has undoubtedly worked well. It has in 1858. In form this Bill is one to justified itself and the anticipations of amend the India Councils Act of 1861. its promoters. Operating to a very large Legislative powers of some sort or extent through the agency of special other, but powers of somewhat con- committees composed of experienced fused character and conflicting validity, persons, it has proved to be an efficient have existed in India for a very long instrument for the evolution of laws. time. They existed under the rule of The publicity which has attended every the old East India Company, dating stage of its proceedings has had a good from the times of the Tudor and Stuart effect. A number of native gentlemen sovereigns; but the modern legislative of intelligence, capacity, and public system, under which the Government spirit have been persuaded to come of India exists, owes its origin to the forward and lend their services to the Viceroyalty of Lord Canning, and the functions of Government, and unSecretaryship of State of Sir Charles doubtedly the standard of merit in Wood, afterwards Lord Halifax, who these Legislative Councils has stood in 1861, carried through the House high. Indeed, I would venture to say the India Councils Act of that year. that few better legislative machines, I may, perhaps, in starting, be with regard to their efficacy for the permitted to remind the House particular object for which they were briefly of the provisions of that constructed, are anywhere in existence, Act, as they are the basis on which we can better legislation produced are now attempting to proceed. The by such bodies be found in any Act of 1861 constituted three Legisla- other country. At the same time, these tive Councils in India—the Supreme Councils have been subject to restricLegislative Council of the Viceroy tions and limitations which were inand the Provincial Legislative tentionally, and I think wisely, imposed Councils of Madras and Bombay. upon them in the first place. The The Supreme Legislative Council House must recognise that they are in of the Viceroy, or, as it is called in the no sense of the term Parliamentary terms of the Act, the Council “ for the bodies. They are deliberative bodies purpose of making laws and regulations with a comparatively narrow-scope, inasonly,” consists of the Governor General much as they only assemble for the and his Executive Council, with a discussion of the immediate legislation minimum of six and a maximum of which lies before them, and are not per


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