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mation. The bureaus will tell us to-day that they want this thing and that thing, and to-morrow they want five times as much, and they are complaining that they are being blocked.
REPAIRS TO BUILDINGS.
The CHAIRMAN. You include in this item authority to repair other buildings that may be required or used ?
Mr. SCOFIELD. Yes.
The CHAIRMAX. Are those Government buildings or rented buildings?
Mr. SCOFIELD. They are rented buildings, mostly. I put the expression “and other buildings" in because we may have some other buildings on which we may want to make some necessary repairs.
The CHAIRMAN. But the purpose is to make this appropriation available for some additional buildings that may be taken in?
Mr. SCOFIELD. Yes.
The CuriAN. You are also asking to make some appropriations in the legislative bill and the urgent deficiency bill for contingent expenses available for repairs to all outside buildings occupied by the War Department and its bureaus and offices. That really is not necessary, is it, if this $827,000 is made available? I presume that would cover it.
Mr. SCOFIELD. You know that more than repairs is covered in that item; for instance, fuel, gas, heating apparatus, etc.
The CILARMAX. For stationary you are asking for $550,000 and you have $255.000. How did you reach that estimate?
Mr. SCOFIELD. For April and May our expenditures were approxi. mately $50,000 for the two months.
The CHAIRMAN. What were they for June!
The CHARMAN. Is that just an accumulation of your stock to issue?
Mr. SCOFIELD. No; that was the actual expenditure.
For two months the expenditure was $50,000—that is, for April and May. At that rate it would be $300.000 per year. We expect to have double the force there shortly. Then we have to add 15 per cent for the increased cost of material, which amounts to $90,000, making a total of $690,000, the amount of the deficiency, 1917, that we have unexpended, $165,000, with the regular appropriation of $25,000, making the estimate $550,000. This estimate was made two weeks ago. The Chief of the Supply Division came into my office day before yesterday morning and said that he did not think that was enough at the rate things were going. I asked him how much more he thought we should have and he said 10 per cent. So I put that in.
The CHIRU IX. For the whole year?
MONDAY, JULY 16, 1917.
OFFICE OF THE ADJUTANT GENERAL.
STATEMENT OF BRIG. GEN. HENRY P. MOCAIN, THE ADJUTANT
(See p. 611.) The CHAIRMAN. General, how much are you requesting from this fund?
Gen. McCuix. Five hundred and fifty clerks in addition to the regular force I have now. The CHAIRMAN. You have now how many ?
Gen. McCain. We have actually 517 clerks in the regular force to-day, but the number authorized is 583.
The CHAIRMAX. How many under the regular establishment ?
The CHAIRMAN. Does that include those we gave you in the deficiency bill?
Gen. McCain. We have not got them all yet.
Gen. McCaix. No, sir; but in the deficiency bill of September 8, 1916.
Mr. Caxnon. Does it include or exclude them?
The CHAIRMAX. Now, then, in addition we gave a lump-su appropriation of $900,000 to the War Department. Did you get anything out of that?
Gen. McCain. I have gotten out of that emergency appropriation 362 clerical employees.
The CHAIRMAN. They are not included in that 547 ?
The CHAIRMAN. Then your estimate is that during this fiscal year you will require 1,097 employees?
Gen. McCain. No, sir; 1,133 clerks.
Gen. McCain. It will be more than that, Mr. Chairman. I have not got my regular force filled up yet. I have an authorized force of 383 clerks, but it is not filled and I have some vacancies. It will take, putting them both together, 1,133 clerks. I made that up a month ago, but if I had to make it over again I would put some more on it, the work is increasing down there so fast.
The CHAIRMAN. Of course I am not criticizing that situation. Now, you have authorized, outside of the emergency appropriation, 583 clerks.
Gen. McCain. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. And you have estimated on obtaining 550 additional clerks?
Gen. McCain. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Now, in your estimates, do you propose to increase the clerks now employed ?
Gen. McCain. Yes, sir; that is, the clerks in the regular force. Under instructions from the Secretary of War I propose to select a number of clerks now on the rolls equal to 10 per cent of the 550 additional clerks authorized and increase the salary of these selected clerks $200 each.
Mr. SHERLEY. You would get 550 clerks.
Mr. SHERLEY. So that you would be permitted, under the Secretary's letter, to promote 55 clerks?
Gen. MCCAIN. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I am asking you why should 10 per cent of that number be promoted ?
Gen. McCain. I would say that those instructions were received
The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Does this direct you to do that? This simply limits the number of men that may be promoted.
Mr. STIERLEY. It is permissive, not mandatory.
Gen. McCain. No, sir; it is not; but I will do it. I will promote as many clerks in
office as I can. The CHAIRMAN. I know, but the intention is not to appropriate money with which to promote clerks, but the intention is to provide money to furnish you with additional services, and the question arises as to whether it would be proper to promote any clerks under this appropriation. The Secretary issued this order under which it would be permitted, but it limits it. It simply puts a limit upon it.
Gen. MCCAIN. The reason is this: We have many clerks there who have been there for years and who are performing mighty efficient service. If you promoted them, you would be recognizing that long and efficient service, and they are certainly entitled to more consideration than men who are just coming in. Instead of giving the man we employ to-day $1.200 we would give him $1,000, and give the $200 to the men who have been with us right along. It is the same thing to the Government, whether we give it to new men or to old men.
Mr. SUERLEY. That is what I am trying to get at. Is it the idea that with doubling the force you will necessarily have an additional number of clerks at $1,400, or more than you have now, and that the question then comes up whether the $1,400 places shall be filled by men at $1.400 or whether old men will be promoted from lower and less arduous and less responsible work to the $1,400 positions?
Gen. McCaix. That is it; by the promotion of the old men to fill the places, by raising the older men.
Mr. SHERLEY. Let me ask you this: Suppose no promotions were made at all, would you still want to fill at the same salaries these additional places that you now propose to fill, or some of them, by the promotion of old men ?
Gen. McCaix. Do you mean to fill them by new men?
Gen. McCain. Yes, sir; if I had the money and were not allowed to promote them I would pay it to the new men.
Nr. SHERLEY. Here is what I am trying to get at, whether the character of the work that is to be done by the force of 1,133 clerks is such that, irrespective of the promotions, it will require a pay roll such as has been submitted ?
Gen. McCaix. I think so, undoubtedly.
Mr. SHERLEY. So that, assuming that to be true, the question of the promotion of the old men would simply mean that the new men you bring in would be taken in for the lower grades rather than for the higher grades!
Gen. McCain. Yes, sir,
Mr. Byrns. If you are not to make any promotions, why is it necessary to appoint new men at $1,200, $1,400, and $1,600 on the temporary roll?
Gen. McCaix. I do not say that it is necessary. We could undoubtedly get the men, but many men we have now will not accept it. The salary is too low. I do not know how many positions have been rejected all over the country, because we could not pay enough. Some men who will not come for $1,000 will come for $1,200. They say that they can not afford to leave their places at that salary, but for $1.200 or $1,400 we could probably get a better class of clerks.
Mr. Byrns. These pirn get the 5 and 10 per cent, do they not?
The CHAIRMAX. The plan would work out like this: If you have a man at $1,100 a year now and take him off the statutory roll and put him on this roll at $1,200, he will get $1.200 year, while the man you appoint in his place will get $1,100 plus 10 per cent, so that while he ostensibly gets a higher salary by promotion, he gets less money.
Gen. McCaix. Yes, sir.
Mr. SCOFIELD. Will that apply to a man appointed since the 1st of July?
The CHAIRMAX. It applies to persons paid out of that appropriation during this fiscal year.
Gen. McCain. As a matter of fact, we have not promoted anybody in my office yet on this proposition. I am trying to work on that very thing. We have not done anything about it, although we are about ready to do it.
Mr. SHERLEY. Here is the thing that seems to be important, but which I am not clear upon, in view of the question asked by Mr. Byrns and your answer; and that is, whether it would be necessary to pay these higher salaries to order to get the additional help.
Mr. SCOFIELD. May I answer that from my experience? In the Ordnance Bureau they had to do it, and they have had to do it in other bureans. We can not get enough stenographers and typewriters at $1,000, because while in their declarations on the civil-service slips when they take the examination they state that they will come for $1,000, for example, they will not come for $1,000 now. They want $1.200, $1.100, $1,500, and sometimes more. We have appointed hunclreds of them at $1,000 and $1.200, and they reject the appointments. In some cases they do that after having been appointed. In the case of the Ordnance Bureau they found it necessary to get some highgrade clerks at $1,600. They were accounting clerks.
There was nobody in the office that they had capable of filling the jobs.
Gen. McCaix. Answering for my own office, we have not gotten all of the emergency clerks authorized, and many of them declined because of the pay. We will eventually get all that we are authorized to get at $1,000, but they are not the best clerks. They are offered bigger salaries on the outside, and after we get them many of them resign.
The CHAIRMAN. I should think this is the situation: The department needs a very large additional force, and we are desirous of giving them the force required, but the question arises as to whether this money should be utilized in paying increased compensation to the persons now in the department. There are instances in which some employee in the department is peculiarly qualified for some position that is required, the work of which is so manifestly different from the work that he is doing that he should be promoted to it, but this is a proposition to take a whole string of clerks and increase the individuals $100
Mr. Scofield (interposing). That has not been the intention of the department.
The CHAIRMAX. That is what the Inspector General states.
Mr. SCOFIELD. I think he is mistaken to some extent in that. The restrictions put on by the Secretary are that promotions shall not be simply for an increased volume of work, but for a change of work to a higher grade of duties.
Mr. SHERLEY. The increase necessary in each office, or what is necessary in each office, has been determined by the head of that office, and it was then sent in to the Secretary. Now, has there been any supervision of those estimates?
Mr. SCOFIELD. Yes, sir.
Mr. Scofield. The way it was figured out was this: They sent in the number that they wanted or would want, and we found from our experience so far that it is costing about $1,100 to get a person
Mr. SHERLEY (interposing). You do not get my point. You were simply figuring the average cost per clerk, but I am asking whether anybody other than the head of the department making the request has supervised that estimate as to the number? For instance, the ordnance people were asking for so many clerks. Did anybody undertake to pass judgment other than the Ordnance Department as to whether that number was needed or whether a less number or a greater number was needed ?
Mr. SCOFIELD. No, sir; except that we found out that they had considered it very carefully and that the Chief of Ordnarce had reduced it materially.