Mr. CLAXTON. The board can not do any of these thing until it has specific authority.

Mr. CANNON. I should like, when you submit the information that you are going to submit on Wednesday next, to have you indicate the number of directors and assistant directors, stenographers, etc., and I should also like your statement to show what you are going to pay them.

Mr. SHERLEY. I intended the statement to include the salaries it was expected would be paid.

Mr. CLAXTON. What you want is practically the the budget of the board for the year?

Mr. SHERLEY. You are asking $28,000 for traveling expenses. What do you base the need of that amount of money on?

Mr. CLAXTON. The law provides that each of the States shall appoint or designate by legislative act or by act of the governor a State board for vocational education, and that this board shall initiate plans for the use of the money which goes to the several States as the bill provides for these kinds of education and for the preparation of teachers; and that half the salary of teachers, or teachears and supervisors in the case of agriculture, may be paid out of the funds appropriated by this act from the Federal Treasury; but in order to know whether the schools are of the character that the law contemplates, it will be necessary in some instances not only to visit the State capitals and confer with the boards themselves, but probably also to visit individual schools. In addition to that it provides that investigations shall be made as to needs in agriculture for agricultural workers and in the industries for industrial workers and in commerce for commercial employees, and also as to what is now done in education in those three fields. That will require a good deal of travel on the part of the employees of the board and also on part of certain members of the board who will have time for it.

Mr. CANNON. Do you not think, in going into the 48 different States, you are going to run up the proposition of duplicating a whole lot of work, and when you submit all the information you have got to submit, you will duplicate a whole lot of information which the States have?

Mr. CLAXTON. In many instances this will be unavoidable. To make the expense on the Federal Government as light as possible, we are asking, in the first instance, that the State boards shall come or send their representatives to Washington. On the 17th of this month the board will begin a series of conferences for this purpose. We have divided the country into five sections and representatives from the States of each of those five sections will come for two days to submit their plans and to discuss them with the board and with the heads of departments who will be here at that time. Tentative plans will then be made, so that the States may begin work.

Mr. CANNON. Take the State of Illinois, for instance. I am familiar with conditions there and also somewhat familiar with conditions in the State of Wisconsin. They have got what might be considered a department of the government which is engaged in all this work. Now whether the States are prepared or not you expect to divide up and pay one-half of this expense that you have referred to without regard to the expenditures which the respective States are

making. One State might need it very badly while a dozen States might not need it at all.

Mr. CLAXTON. That is in the law and, of course, the board can not change that; but the State must appropriate at least as much as it receives from the Government. We can pay only half the salary of any teacher or supervisor. There will be many difficulties of administration. No very comprehensive study of the question of vocational education has ever been made in this country and we have much to learn. But the board will carry out the spirit of the law respectfully with the autonomy of the State and adapt their requirements as nearly as possible to the needs of each State. That is one reason why we shall need a comparatively large traveling expense fund. Members of the board or of the staff must frequently confer with the authorities of the several States.

FEDERAL BOARD OF VOCATIONAL EDUCATION,
Washington, August 17, 1917.

The SECRETARY OF THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE,

Washington, D. C.

DEAR SIR: I am returning herewith the transcript of my hearing on the amendment which the Federal Board for Vocational Education desires to have inserted in the deficiency bill.

I am inclosing a diagram of the plan of organization of the board and its staff. When asked if I could submit the board's budget for the year I said I would refer it to the board. I thought that it might be submitted by Wednesday of this week. The board did not meet until noon Thursday. When this request was presented to it, it was of the opinion that it was not able to submit a budget at this time, as it has only begun the process of making up its staff. It is hoped that it may be sufficient for the present year if the budget is submitted as a part of the board's annual report to Congress.

Yours, sincerely,

P. P. CLAXTON, Secretary.

THURSDAY, AUGUST 16, 1917.

COUNCIL OF NATIONAL DEFENSE.

STATEMENTS OF MR. FRANK A. SCOTT, CHAIRMAN, MR. ROBERT S. BROOKINGS, MR. HUGH FRAYNE, MEMBERS WAR INDUSTRIES BOARD; AND MR. JULIUS ROSENWALD, CHAIRMAN, MR. T. W. CARLISLE, MR. STANLEY KING, MR. ALBERT L. SCOTT, MR. E. 0. HEYL, MEMBERS COMMITTEE ON SUPPLIES; AND MAJ. H. S. WONSON, UNITED STATES ARMY.

WAR INDUSTRIES BOARD.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Scott, you are chairman of the Munitions Board?

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. The War Industries Board it is now called. The CHAIRMAN. That is a new board created since we had the hearings before.

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Now will you state the changes that have been effected in the organization and just what work is being done.

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. You, perhaps, know, Mr. Chairman, that the new board has only been in existence about 10 days.

The CHAIRMAN. No; I do not know anything about it. Mr. F. A. SCOTT. And therefore the changes thus far made are not as considerable as they will be in another 10 days; but the new board. is created under the title of War Industries Board by the Council of National Defense, and its purposes are defined by an official statement from the council that was sent to each member of the board at the time he was notified of his appointment. The official notification of appointment came to each member of the board from the chairman of the council, the Secretary of War, saying that upon the direction of the President he conveyed this information of the appointment. The members of the board are Judge Robert S. Lovett, of New York; Robert S. Brookings, of St. Louis; Hugh Frayne, of New York; Bernard Baruch, of New York; Col. Palmer E. Pierce; and Rear Admiral Fletcher; and the chairman is F. A. Scott, of Cleveland.

I file with you here a copy of the statement of the powers of the board as given to the members of the board.

These powers are to coordinate the needs of the Army and the Navy, to assist in the acquirement of the needs of the Army and the Navy, and in the development of facilities for furnishing the requirements of the Army and the Navy, to assist in the establishment of priority of those needs. The statement says that in doing these things and the other things which are required, the work shall be divided preferably in this way: Mr. Baruch to devote his attention particularly to the subject of raw materials, Mr. Brookings particularly to the subject of fabricated materials, and Judge Lovett to the subject of priority. I do not believe I have omitted any important part of the authorization; but it also contains the statement that the board shall take over the work and the activities of the old general Munitions Board, which was a clearing house largely for the Army and the Navy; and that certain committees which formerly reported to sections of the Advisory Commission of the Council of National Defense shall now report direct to the War Industries Board, and that this establishment of the board and the statement of its powers, are not intended to displace the activities of the these business committees which had formerly been occupied by the advisory commission of the council; and in this statement the work of those committees is referred to with expressions of compliment.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Scott, does the question of priority include priority of transportation as well as manufacture?

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. There is no definite reference to that, and it happens to be my personal impression that the priority bill which has since become law was not law at the time of which I speak, when this notice was delivered to us; so perhaps the powers, if any, under that bill will have to be conferred later by the President on whosoever he intends to confer them, whether Judge Lovett or another.

The CHAIRMAN. So far as your statement goes, it includes no priority of transportation?

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. I can not cover the question of transportation priority, because I am not really familiar with it. I think, in a general way, Mr. Chairman, that covers the powers of the board. Now, the board has proceeded with its work of reorganization to this extent: In order to disassociate the trade committees from direct

contact with the department in recommendations on matters in which any member of those committees might be regarded as having an interest, the trade committees have been ordered to report their recommendations through Mr. Brookings when they fall within his division of the work and to Mr. Baruch when they fall within his division of the work, and as to matters of ordnance, as that happens to be the only subject on which I have any information, those committees are ordered to report to the board through me. Just that one action, of course, constitutes quite a considerable change and is one of the things in this official statement, to which I have referred, that is referred to particularly. The desirability of putting in some disinterested party between the sources of these recommendations and the sources of the information upon which recommendations are based and the department to whom the recommendations go.

Mr. SHERLEY. Mr. Scott, right at that point, if I recall rightly, the law which created the Council of National Defense provided that that council should be made up of six members of the Cabinet, enumerating them, and that there should be an advisory commission or committee on national defense, which, as I recall, was composed of seven members. Under the council and the commission there grew up a great number of subsidiary committees, some of them being directly under the council and some of them being directly under the committee or commission. Now, you referred a few moments ago to the effect that the letter designating this war industries board carried a statement that it was not meant by its creation to entirely eliminate these subsidiary committees which have been acting either under the council or the commission. Now, you have just stated that reports, however, are to be made to this new board. Are we to understand by that that the relationship of all these subsidiary committees to the council and to the committee on national defense has been abrogated and that they now exist under this board?

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. When this official statement is filed with you, Mr. Sherley, you will see that certain committees of the council are referred to specifically as committees that are excepted from the general rule that the committees in existence shall report to the new War Industries Board, and those committees are enumerated in this official statement. I make no attempt to recite to you what they are, because some of them are committees with which I have never come in contact and am not familiar with.

Mr. SHERLEY. Was that true of all the committees that were under the council or only of certain ones that are designated?

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. This paragraph of the statement covers that · matter:

The Council of National Defense and the advisory commission will continue unchanged and will discharge the duties imposed upon them by law. The committees heretofore created immediately subordinate to the Council of National Defense, namely, labor, transportation and communication, shipping, medicine and surgery, women's defense work, cooperation with State councils, research and inventions, engineering and education, commercial economy, administrations and statistics, and inland transportation, will continue their activities under the direction and control of the council. Those whose work is related to the duties of the War Industries Board will cooperate with it. The subcommittees advising on particular industries and materials, both raw and finished, heretofore created, will alse continue in existence and be available to furnish assistance to the War Industries Board.

That is the group of committees I referred to.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand the organization, the committees in the Council of National Defense will all continue operating under the Council of National Defense, while the committees of the advisory commission will continue to report directly to the War Industries Board.

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. Yes; that is the way we are interpreting this, although in specific language it does not say that. It says they Will continue in existence and be available to furnish assistance to the War Industries Board."

The CHAIRMAN. What part of the order refers to the desirability of having some independent body

Mr. F. A. SCOTT (interposing). The next paragraph:

The purpose of this action is to expedite the work of the Government, to furnish needed assistance to the departments engaged in making war purchases, to devolve clearly and definitely the important tasks indicated upon direct representatives of the Government not interested in commercial and industrial activities with which they will be called upon to deal, and to make clear that there is total disassociation of the industrial committees from the actual arrangements of purchases on behalf of the Government.

You will see that that clause makes it necessary that we take those committees over and stand between them and the departments. [Reading:]

It will lodge responsibility for effective action as definitely as is possible under existing law. It does not minimize or dispense with the splendid service which representatives of industry and labor have so unselfishly placed at the disposal of the Government.

Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, as I have read all except two or three paragraphs of this letter, you would prefer that I read those:

The Council of National Defense to-day decided, with the approval of the President, to create a small body to be known as the war industries board. The war industries board, in addition to other duties, will assume those formerly discharged by the general munitions board. The new board will be composed of seven members, working under the direction and control of the Council of National Defense and responsible through it to the President. Its members will be direct representatives of the Government and of the public interests. It will be composed of Mr. F. A. Scott, chairman; Lieut. Col. Palmer E. Pierce, representing the Army; Rear Admiral Frank F. Fletcher, representing the Navy; Mr. Hugh Frayne, Mr. B. M. Baruch, Mr. Robert S. Brookings, and Mr. Robert S. Lovett.

The board will act as a clearing house for the war industry needs of the Government, determine the most effective ways of meeting them and the best means and methods of increasing production, including the creation or extension of industries demanded by the emergency, the sequence and relative urgency of the needs of the different Government services, and consider price factors, and, in the first instance, the industrial and labor aspects of problems involved and the general questions affecting the purchase of commodities.

Of this board Mr. Baruch will give his attention particularly to raw materials, Mr. Brookings to finished products, and Mr. Lovett to matters of priority. These three members, in association with Mr. Hoover so far as foodstuffs are involved, will constitute a commission to arrange purchases in accordance with the general policies formulated and approved.

Mr. SHERLEY. Mr. Scott, I have here a chart which has been drawn, undertaking to summarize the different bodies and their relationship to each other and to the Council of National Defense, which I will put in the record.

Mr. F. A. SCOTT. Perhaps you had better let me identify that, because I have not seen it before. [After examining chart.] Yes; I think this shows it; certainly as we took it over.

(The sketch referred to follows:)