The clerks have been cooperating with us very well and we try to keep down the number of positions as much as we can. It is really a difficult task. It would make it considerably easier for us to have the $10,000.

As an indication of the volume of work yet to be done in distributing moneys in the registries of the courts I should like to call your attention to the fact that as of September 30, 1943, there was on deposit in the registries of the various district courts $91,876,374.35. As of December 31, 1943, there was on deposit $31,650,701.08. The major part of these funds represent deposits in condemnation cases. Mr. CHANDLER. I should like some recognition for this fact: aside from the wartime addition to rates of pay, which will have to be provided for in the deficiency appropriation, we estimate that our margin in the appropriation for this year, at the end of the year, will be $19,977. On an allotment of $2,570,000, that is pretty close. Sometimes we will get this kind of a message:

The Immigration and Naturalization Service in Portland, Oreg., or in Los Angeles, Calif., informs us that it is going to double the number of naturalization petitions presented and it is very important that the court handle them promptly; we must have additional ten porary help.

Naturally we are not interested in authorizing the employment of temporary employees unless there is a condition which calls for it. But when there is we have to meet it. We cannot allow the naturalization procedure to be obstructed.

HIGHER-LIVING-COST DIFFERENTIAL

Mr. O'NEAL. How many people are involved in your salary differential for higher living cost outside the United States?

Mr. JACKSON. That will provide a differential for a total of 22 employees. There will be 6 in the Territory of Alaska, 4 in Hawaii, 7 in Puerto Rico, and 5 in the Virgin Islands.

NUMBER OF MAN-YEARS ESTIMATED, 1945

Mr. O'NEAL. I would like to get back to the personnel as set forth on page 165 of the committee print. Here we have a man-year figure estimated for 1945 of 1,144.3. That would represent, according to your figuring, how many people?

Mr. WHITEHURST. With total permanent man-years of 1,074.5, we have 1,079 permanent positions on the rolls, so it has been running close. We have 33 vacancies.

Mr. O'NEAL. So you are pretty close to that figure.

Mr. WHITEHURST. Yes; we have 33 vacancies out of 1,079 positions.

CURRENT EXPENDITURES

Mr. O'NEAL. How much have you spent for the first 6 months of the year?

Mr. JACKSON. Up to December 31, $1,445,480.50.

the

Mr. O'NEAL. How much of that was overtime?

Mr. WHITEHURST. $187,500.

Mr. O'NEAL. Exclusive of overtime, how much are you asking for year 1945?

96127-44-6

Mr. WHITEHURST. We are asking for $2,510,390. We are talking about permanent employees now.

Mr. O'NEAL. You are running at the rate of $2,174,000, and you are asking for $2,510,390 for permanent personnel, is that correct?

Mr. WHITEHURST. That is correct, $2,510,390 for permanent personnel.

Mr. O'NEAL. For the first 6 months of the fiscal year 1944 you have spent, for the comparable item, $1,087,500. On that basis, for a full year, that would be how much?

What is the figure for the first 6 months for salaries exclusive of overtime?

Mr. WHITEHURST. $1,257,980.

Mr. O'NEAL. The amount you are asking for salaries for 1945 on a full-year basis, exclusive of overtime, is $2,510,000, is that correct? Mr. WHITEHURST. Yes, sir.

Mr. O'NEAL. Will you put in the record a statement showing what your experience has been and what you are actually asking for next year?

Mr. WHITEHURST. We shall insert such a statement. (The statement referred to is as follows:)

Appropriation for salaries for permanent personnel, fiscal year 1944, exclusive of wartime additional pay-.

$2. 447, 980. 00

Amount expended for salaries of permanent personnel first 6 months of fiscal year 1944, exclusive of wartime additional pay 1, 215, 000. 49 Amount requested for salaries of permanent personnel, fiscal year 1945, exclusive of wartime additional pay--.

VACANCIES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES

2, 514, 910. 00

Mr. O'NEAL. You have 29 vacancies in your entire pay roll throughout the United States. How does it happen that your clerks stay on the job so much?

Mr. CHANDLER. A very much larger proportion of them are women than of the probation officers. The number of clerks' personnel that went into the armed services up to June 30 last averaged 5 percent. Mr. JOHNSON. What is included in the item in your justification on page 46, "Recurring increase, $54,930?"

Mr. JACKSON. The item for reclassification of deputy clerks, $18,000; reclassification of the positions of librarians, $4.520; the difference between the part-year and the full-year cost of salary increases, $17,490, and the salary differential of $14,920. Those are the items of increase which would recur from year to year and are listed separately on the recapitulation.

Mr. JOHNSON. And they would recur if we followed out these recommendations which have been made?

Mr. JACKSON. That is right.

SALARIES, JUSTICES AND JUDGES, TRERRITORY OF HAWAII

Mr. O'NEAL. We will take up the item, to be found on page 161 of the committee print and page 42 of the justifications, "Salaries, justices and judges, Territory of Hawaii." Your regular appropriation for 1944 is $103,500. We eliminate an item of position of judge of the fourth judicial circuit, amounting to $7,000, leaving a base for 1945 of $96,500, which represents the amount of the estimate for 1945.

Mr. CHANDLER. That is right.

Mr. O'NEAL. Do you care to make any comment on that?

Mr. CHANDLER. I will simply say, as I think you know, that the salaries of the judges of the circuit courts and supreme court of the Territory of Hawaii are paid by the United States. The Territory itself pays all the other expenses. The payment of the salaries is provided for by a provision of title 48 of the U. S. Code, section 634 (a).

Mr. O'NEAL. How much do the other expenses amount to?

Mr. CHANDLER. I do not know, sir.

Mr. O'NEAL. Is it a figure comparable to this amount?

Mr. CHANDLER. That would be sheer guesswork on my part. I realize that in the case of courts the salaries of the judges are a pretty substantial part of the cost of the courts.

SALARIES OF CIRCUIT, DISTRICT, AND RETIRED JUDGES

Mr. O'NEAL. Taking up the item of salaries of judges: For salaries of circuit judges, district judges, and judges retired, your regular appropriation is $3,222,500, which represents the base for 1945 and is the estimate of appropriation for the coming fiscal year.

Are there any vacancies?

Mr. CHANDLER. There are vacancies, but this is for the fiscal year beginning the 1st of next July.

Mr. O'NEAL. Does this item run pretty uniform through the year? Mr. JACKSON. The expenditures to the end of December were $1,555.871.67.

Mr. O'NEAL. You do not think it would be safe to give that item a little cut?

Mr. JACKSON. I would urge that you leave that appropriation as it is for this reason: We have absorbed the salaries of three judgeships which were created within the past year or so.

Mr. O'NEAL. You are not asking any more?

Mr. JACKSON. No, sir; we are not. There was authorization for the appointment of a circuit court judge in the fifth circuit at $12,500; one additional district judge in the northern district of Alabama, $10,000, and one additional district judge in the eastern and western districts of Missouri at $10,000, totaling $32,500. We are planning to try to absorb that cost.

Mr. WHITEHURST. I might point out that that is all statutory, and if there is any money left over, it stays in the Treasury.

Mr. O'NEAL. You cannot put it to temporary purposes for judges? Mr. WHITEHURST. No, sir. There is one uncertain item in this appropriation every year, and that is the allotment for the pay of retired judges. It is uncertain because we do not know how many retired judges there will be. We know how many are eligible to retire, but as you know they are not compelled to retire.

FEES OF COMMISSIONERS, UNITED STATES COURTS

Mr. O'NEAL. Taking up the item, "Fees of commissioners, United States courts," your regular appropriation for 1944 was $350,000. Your base for 1945 is $350,000, but your estimate is $400,000. There is

no actual increase here except for the additional compensation of $50,000.

Mr. CHANDLER. That is the way it stands. I would like to point out one or two matters in respect of this item. $60,000 of the base of $350,000 is to provide for the compensation of conciliation commissioners appointed under section 75 of the Bankrutey Act.

Mr. JOHNSON. Do you still have much action under that?

Mr. CHANDLER. The number of cases is going down very markedly. The act expires by its terms on the 4th of March as to new cases and there is a bill pending, which Congressman Lemke has introduced and which I understand is going to be favorably reported by the Committee on the Judiciary, to extend the time within which petitions may be filed to March 4, 1948.

Mr. O'NEAL. Are you referring to the Lemke Act under which a farmer may file a petition in bankruptcy?

Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir. We put the item in the estimate because last summer we could not tell what the situation would be, and I am just bringing it to your notice.

Mr. JOHNSON. How much have you in here on account of the Lemke Act?

Mr. CHANDLER. Sixty thousand dollars.

Mr. O'NEAL. And that has not been acted on as yet?

Mr. CHANDLER. No; it has not.

Mr. O'NEAL. Of course, we cannot take any action on it until the proposed act actually becomes law. You would have to do something about it later.

Mr. CHANDLER. The other aspect of the matter is that the increase provided for is only the increase for the wartime addition to compensation. We are having to ask this year a deficiency; that is, for last year we asked a deficiency and secured one of $67,000, of which $40,000 was for the increased business of commissioners. With the increase in the number of criminal cases to which I referred yesterday, there naturally is a great increase in the number of cases which are heard by commissioners, and a consequent increase in their fees. It really seems to us, and we can have no other view, that there will be a deficiency for 1945 unless a larger amount is appropriated. Still, this is our estimate.

EXPENDITURES FOR 6 MONTHS OF CURRENT YEAR

Mr. O'NEAL. What has been your experience for the first 6 months of this year, exclusive of overtime?

Mr. JACKSON. I do not believe I can give it to you exclusive of overtime. I can give you the total amount we have expended. Actual expenditures are $92,197.76. There is obligated, however, $150,863. Mr. O'NEAL. Over and above the $92,000?

Mr. JACKSON. No, including the $92,000.

Mr. O'NEAL. And you are taking care of the overtime and other items within that amount?

Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir, we are taking care of them as we go along.

Mr. O'NEAL. Then it looks as though you are running way behind of the amount that you are asking for.

Mr. WHITEHURST. The commissioners file their accounts quarterly. Mr. O'NEAL. Does it not run uniform, quarter by quarter?

Mr. WHITEHURST. No, sir. There is quite a lag there. The commissioners are divided up, for the purpose of auditing, into different groups. Each one files his account at the end of a quarter. For some commissioners the quarters run January, February, and March; for another group it will run February, March, and April; and so forth. This is to even up the flow of accounts to our office as far as practicable to facilitate their audit.

When the accounts come to our office they are given a preliminary audit and then sent to the General Accounting Office, where they are given the final audit and a certificate of settlement is issued. The General Accounting Office sends back to us a certificate of settlement and we pay the commissioners. So sometimes as long as 6 months have expired after the service is performed before the commissioner has received his check.

Mr. JOHNSON. What is the basis of the commissioners' fees?
Mr. WHITEHURST. The fees are set by law.

EXPENDITURES IN FISCAL YEAR 1943

Mr. O'NEAL. How much did you pay in the fiscal year 1943? Did the amount run close to this figure?

Mr. JACKSON. Our estimated expenditures for the fiscal year 1943 are $117,600.

Mr. O'NEAL. What were your actual expenditures? Could you supply a table of the actual expenditures for 1943, and the estimated expenditures for 1944 and 1945, excluding overtime, so that we can understand exactly how much you will expend in 1944, or what your expenditures have been for the first 6 months of the current fiscal year?

Mr. CHANDLER. We will supply that information.

Mr. O'NEAL. Because it looks as though you are expending much less than you are asking for.

Mr. CHANDLER. The difficulty is the long lag prevents us from telling you what the exact expenditures are. We will give you the best information we have.

Mr. JACKSON. We are still receiving a few straggling accounts for 1943.

Mr. O'NEAL. You must have some idea as to whether you will need all you are asking for or not. According to the experience you have indicated to us, you do not need as much as $350,000, which you are estimating. We would like some informative table setting out the basis for this request of $350,000, plus whatever the figure is on fees alone. Apparently you are not being called upon to pay out that much in fees.

Mr. CHANDLER. On page 169 of the committee print there are indicated the actual obligations for 1943. I will admit that the term "actual" in connection with this particular appropriation is not entirely accurate, because it is an estimate based on our judgment. Mr. O'NEAL. Yet you have spent only $92,000 for the first 6 months. Mr. CHANDLER. Of 1944.

Mr. O'NEAL. There ought to be some explanation when you are asking almost four times that amount.

Mr. JACKSON. The explanation is in the lag between the time the commissioners perform the service and the time we get the bills.